Our Process: An Ongoing Co-Creation

There’s a formula for how things are done. At least that’s what we’re told, what we believe. If we just learn, and follow, the ‘right’ formula, we’ll be successful. So we try. We spend our time and money on the next quick fix, the next sure-fire thing, the next “10 steps to…”.

As leaders, this is exponentially true for us because we’re expected to have all the answers. The problem is that the answers we’re buying are all from the past. They won’t work where we’re going, and we are already seeing the evidence. So where do we turn? The truth is, the answers are not ‘out there’, the future is calling to each of us and we are being asked to connect, be present and learn to co-create with the future itself. 

What does that mean and where do we start?

Today Maren & Stephanie go through their unusual creative process, for both this podcast and their businesses, which strays far off the beaten path. They share their Leadership that goes beyond the formulaic teachings into the wisdom of the incoming future.

If you are ready to break out of the old scarcity modes and reactivity cycles, to become abundant, agile and responsive, to be present and co-create with the future that wants to happen, you will love today’s podcast. Maren & Stephanie’s process makes space for the brilliant breakthroughs and creativity that have been stuck and waiting for YOU to hear them!

• 06:25 The Power Partner, getting help curating
• 09:45 Overwhelm or trust and allowing
• 13:17 Receive and be guided and it’s playful and fun
• 18:01 Act now or it’s gone or a higher form of leadership
• 26:58 Creating your life with a loving presence that is here to help

LINKS

10:57 Ep 37 “to You” or “for You”: How to Make Shift Happen

21:32 Ep 103 Success: Straight Line or Meandering Road Stephanie’s full “help me through this or take it from me” Mantra

TRANSCRIPT

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Transcript

Maren Oslac: 0:04

In a world where achievements and accolades motivate us to do more and be more, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Stephanie Allen: 0:12

deep inside, you know, there is more to life, you're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper life that's calling you.

Maren Oslac: 0:20

That's where we excel. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.

Stephanie Allen: 0:26

And this is the soulful leader podcast.

Maren Oslac: 0:29

Sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've uncovered to help you make shift happen. Welcome back to the soulful leader podcast. This is Maren and I'm here with Stephanie. We've had a couple of people ask us recently what our process is for creating the podcast every week because we we've had a very successful run. We've been at this for over two years now and consistently. And it's, we've done podcasts about what it's changed in us and how we've evolved as people. And I think that there's a lot of lessons that I've learned, especially around leadership, doing this soulful leader podcast with Stephanie. And much of that has to do with how we've chosen to do the podcast and what it means to be a soulful leader, the two of those are directly connected. So one of the things that I know I'd like to at least start with is our presencing practice, and what does that mean a presencing practice. So instead of having an agenda for what we're going to talk about each week, what Stephanie and I both do in our own lives, is we are present to reoccurring themes or things that we notice, or that we notice we notice. And in your own lives, as you go through life, there are things that you notice, you notice, but most of us don't have a way to track that or to even think

Stephanie Allen: 2:24

I was, let's even just talk about what you notice you notice, okay, and even what that means, because I think it really even starts with a question of like, what wants to happen? You know, we talked about like, some of our podcasts we talked about, like, instead of always having the answers, to really presence asking better questions. And as a culture, we don't really learn how to ask good questions, or we're shamed when we do start to ask questions. But what Maren and I are really talking about like being present and what wants to happen or noticing what we noticed, or starting with something of saying, I have a calling, or I feel or know or see that there's something that we want to be in service with. But we also have this conversation with whether you call it spirit or God or higher power, or your future self, whatever you might want to call it. But I would say like the highest possibility that I am meant to step into in this lifetime, I will presence her and say, for my future, and I'd say what wants to happen? Where are you guiding me, help lead me into the most beautiful, extraordinary, meaningful, purposeful life. And then Maren and I start to pay attention. And so we might, yeah, talk to that

Maren Oslac: 3:45

In addition to that, so there is the bigger personal level of what I'm meant to step into. There's also an agreement that you and I have about the soulful leader podcast in particular, because we also have the soulful leader project. So we have an agreement and an intention for what the podcast is and how we are showing up to serve future leaders, current leaders, people to shift the way that that we lead, that leadership is thought about. So with both of those intentions, they come together and from that place now we start to become aware of what's showing up. So there's so intention first. Absolutely. And and Maren and I are doing this together, and this is no different than what you would do with a marriage or what you would do with friends or different things like this, too. You'd be saying or a business

Stephanie Allen: 4:48

what's to happen, or business or anywhere. It's it's an actual collaborative and presencing practice. So instead of trying to figure it all out, going okay, this is the, our goals, these are our, you know, our projections for this year, this is what we want to get done, this is where we want to go. That's helpful. But you hold it lightly meaning you might have that kind of an ideal of what you want to go. But you also holding space for what wants to happen, to happen, too. That doesn't mean you toss out the old goals and ideals, you have a conversation about it going well, hey, you know, we kind of talked about, you know, how we want to change the way businesses does business, we don't always know what that means. So we know that isn't the way that it's always been done. So then Maren, and I would talk and say, Well, what have you noticed this week, or what, what has, where's your attention gone, or what has landed in your environment, whether feeling, seeing hearing, or, you know, sometimes books, you know, light up, or you hear something on the radio, or somebody else is talking next to you, and you're like, oh, that sounds interesting, or you have an insight in an internal awareness or dream, an idea. And so it's not that we act on it immediately, we actually bring it to each other, and we curate it really where we start collecting it. And when a whole bunch of things are lining up with that, then we go, Oh, I think this is really the week that we need to talk about, whatever, whatever it might be lining up that week.

Maren Oslac: 6:25

So the other piece that I want to add to that you mentioned, it's like a partnership, right, a business partnership, or a marriage or friendships. It's also there's another entity which we don't talk about them, especially in marriages or businesses. And Stephen Covey mentioned it when he talked about masterminds. That whenever there's a group that comes together, in order to create something, that group ends up as an entity of itself, it ends up as a being. And anyone who's had a business can feel that in their business, like the business takes on a life of its own it, it is an entity. So there's that piece of the intention process that we're aware of. It's also we have consciously chosen to make spirit, our partner. So it's Maren and Stephanie, and our team, and spirit, and the being of the soulful leader project and the being of the soulful leader podcast. And it may sound like it's getting crowded. And those are the pieces that they help us to, you know, we get so many billions of bytes of information, we're in the information age, and we're overloaded with information. So who is sorting that for us? My conscious mind can't do it. Stephanie's conscious mind can't do it. It's not what it was built for. So when we set our intentions, and when we include the beings that are there to help us, spirit, and the beings of our you know, of our business, those are the ones that are helping us to curate, I love that word that you used. Because when we walk into a museum, they don't put every piece of art that they have up on the walls, nobody would want to go see that. They curate, and they tell a story. And that's what invites us in and makes us excited when when somebody is putting together a book, they curate the information, the people who write those books, they have so much information, and they curate the specific things. And so that's what we do. And we get help every week. Here, this lights up. Here, that, do that, think of this.

Stephanie Allen: 8:57

And I think what for me, what happens is that my identity gets to take a backseat. So it's like, I think there's a part in our culture that we have to be in control. And when we're not in control, we don't have clarity, and we don't know what wants to happen. There the tendency to go into fight, flight or freeze, you know, those kind of reactive state and when I am intentional about having a third party being you know, you and I are doing the soulful leader project, the soulful leader project has the third identity, that's spirit. And I am practicing letting go. I'm practicing surrendering. I'm practicing, allowing. I heard something said earlier today. It's like when you feel you're overwhelmed and you just go I can't do this, Spirit can do it for you. And so what is your practice to allow it? That's kind of what we're about. I can't. Spirit can. Trust and allow. That's the practice.

Maren Oslac: 10:04

So I just so often, I think we're taught, if we don't do it, no one will, if you don't do it, no one will, you know that, that belief that saying, and so if I don't make it happen if I don't push through if I don't... And I guess I agree with that, if I believe it.

Stephanie Allen: 10:26

well sometimes that's true, that's

Maren Oslac: 10:27

right.

Stephanie Allen: 10:27

sometimes that's true. And sometimes it's not.

Maren Oslac: 10:31

Right.

Stephanie Allen: 10:32

You know, it's like, we've seen these before, it's like, you know, sometimes something comes in for a season or a reason, right? And when you look at it, like, why did this happen to me, whatever, that it's like, you know, you got fired, or you went through a divorce, or you had an illness or whatever. It's like, there's a reason and there's a season. It's like, what if there was a third entity, of like, we've said this before, on our podcast, it happens for us, not to us. Like, if you presence a different place, to go, humm, I wonder this third being, this third entity, what beautiful unfolding, that being or entity has for me? And it would be really helpful if I build a relationship with that being that loving incline because I'm sure that being will then leave me breadcrumbs to remind me how to get home. Like, they're not going to leave me lost in the wilderness. And I think that woundedness of like, you know, if it's, it's up to me, if it's gonna, if it's going to happen, I'm like, that's really siloed energy, and it really pushes people away. And then it sets yourself up for beating yourself up when you make a mistake, or it doesn't work through and the way you hoped it would. And, and there there is that that, you know, you think of like a guitar string, it has to have the right amount of tension in it. So if it's too loose, it doesn't make sound. And if it's too tight, it breaks. And that's really what we're seeing it like, it's not about just giving up of like, you know, this is what is meant to happen. But it's also not about trying to force your way through it. It's holding that tension between the two. And so what is that, you know, what is that, what is that practice that you have? Or, And so I know many people have been asking me like, how do you ever come up, you obviously have a lot of talk about, how do you ever come up with all those things? And that might be true. You're right, I'm looking here, I have a lot of talk about I don't know. But I'm also paying attention. I also have a daily practice. And so does Maren, where we are paying attention. We're investing our awareness with the question'What wants to happen?', and then we have, we meet, Maren and I meet, you know, a minimum of three to four times a week outside of the podcast of just talking and texting. And, you know, Maren lives in Chicago. I live in Nova Scotia. And so it's not like you can go and have a cup of coffee with each other, but we do online. And we talk about this and say, you know, what, what's showing up for you? And this is what's showing up for me. Yeah. And I wonder what spirit wants to have us talk about this week?

Maren Oslac: 13:17

I love that example of the guitar string, because I think that's so perfect. We do tend to swing from one side to the other. And when you said earlier about having a practice of allowing. And that is, it's in that, it's in that tension of the opposites. It's not all right, I don't have to do anything. And if it's meant to be, it'll just drop into my lap, which sometimes actually happens.

Stephanie Allen: 13:46

but if you're not having a practice of paying attention, you won't know that it's dropped into your lap

Maren Oslac: 13:50

true

Stephanie Allen: 13:51

that's my key.

Maren Oslac: 13:52

That is true,

Stephanie Allen: 13:53

how many times, How many times has something really great shown up for you, and you didn't know at the time that it was really great until it was gone? And then you're like, crap. Yet another reason to beat myself up about but, you know, this is another reason why to have a practice. So you don't beat yourself up so much. And you allow yourself to actually receive and be guided, and it's playful and fun.

Maren Oslac: 14:17

And so often there is something that spirit is asking of me saying, Okay, if you want that here, I need you to do X, Y, or Z. And what I'm finding is through my practice, X, Y, and Z is not what my figuring mind would have told me that X, Y and Z was. So an example of, for the podcast normally, and this was true when we first got started. The the woman that was helping us had us make lists of subjects that we could talk about. And to be honest, I don't think Stephanie and I ever once looked at that list. Did we?

Stephanie Allen: 15:01

Oh, yeah, that list. I totally forgot about that list.

Maren Oslac: 15:03

Didn't you forget about that list, right? That's the way that, like, the figuring mind is like, Okay, here's the process, we do it logically, everything is logical linear in line. And, and because this is not a new practice, what we're sharing with you today is not a new practice for me or for Stephanie, applying it to this podcast, when we started the podcast, obviously, it was new to the podcast. And so, because it wasn't new to me or Stephanie, we were already in a flow of being in conversation with what wants to happen, with spirit, with like, following the threads of life. And so our process was very different from what people would have told us, or what my figuring mind would have said, Oh, this is what you need to do next, you know, because Spirit had me going in a different, had us going in a different direction. And it said, Nope, this is what you guys need to do. Okay. So it's, it's fun. It's like a treasure hunt.

Stephanie Allen: 16:06

Yeah, and I think, you know, I'm thinking of parents out there that have young young families, who are trying to have their young families and their, their young people figure out what they're going to do once they graduate from high school, like, you know, what, and I remind the parents to say, we don't know what this soul is actually meant to unfold in their lifetime. And a lot of times, you know, what they're meant to unfold hasn't even come into, into into form yet. So, to me, it's really helpful if someone who's 17 to 24 is learning how to practice what wants to happen and paying attention. And that has the space to try on different things. I think a lot of times we think, Oh, my God, you know, I did this job, or I have that relationship, or I hurt myself here. And we we get, you know, we hurt ourselves or we fail, quote, unquote, fail, right. And we judge ourselves that it's like, Oh, I'm just a hot mess, like, it's not figuring it out. I can't, you know, I'm messing everything up. Instead of looking at it that perhaps you're building resonance of learning what it is, your gifts and strengths are, what your passions are. And also discovering, you know, every single one of those things that may didn't, maybe didn't work out the way you had thought, was actually pruning you or guiding you towards some other some other gift or strength or meeting a person or going to a different place that was going to be part of your future. And if we can trust it, and we can start to pay attention to it, see that's the key. I think we willy nilly, I used to think I'm like, Oh, I'm winging it. I'm just winging it. Or when I'm doing body work, I'm gonna go I'm listening to the inner guidance. It's like, oh, yes, sometimes that's true. But I have to also show up and pay attention and also involve the people, or the things I'm involved in and spirit, to actually have a conversation with, say, Hey, are you feeling this? Or did you notice that? Or what about this? It's a conversation, it's not a right or wrong, or good or bad or left or right or up or down. It's like, okay, I'm gonna note that. And I'm not taking an act on it until, I think, because that's our society tell us Oh, if you don't take an action, it could be gone, you'll miss it. It's gone forever. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. But until there's something that actually you can feel within your bones and go, Okay, I've seen this and now I need to act on it. Like I had a situation recently where I kept getting messages to not do something. Even though 99.9% of me was saying, Yeah, I'm done. I need to go here. I need you there. And this voice inside me kept saying, Well, it'snot what you think, slow down. I'm like, Who the hell is talking to me? What is this? You know, because it's second, but I kept listening. And I'm like, okay, but there's something that felt so real so true. That even though 99.9% of me was totally like I'm, I'm losing it, I listened to it. And and as I stareted to listen to it I started to see how it was unfolding in a completely different way than I would have never gone. And I want more of that.

Maren Oslac: 19:41

So it's almost it's like, we tend to react. And we don't know we react from our egos and from our identity and when we have developed a conversation with to a deeper why, a deeper, you know, with spirit really, with whatever you want to call that. Then we can presence that, we can, you know that voice. It may feel like, you know what 99.9% of me says, No, I just I gotta go, I'm out of here. I'm done. And that was the ego that was saying, No, I'm done. I need to protect myself.

Stephanie Allen: 20:31

And I say, I'm so glad you're bringing this up, because those are the two markers for me. If I'm in a place where I say, like a rebellion, like, No, I am not doing this absolutely no way. And there's like a lot of energy behind it. Or the other is like, why bother. I'm, I might as well just give up, I'm hopeless, and I'm helpless and I have doubt, that I know those two markers, we're coming back to that guitar string, I know, I'm at two opposite ends, and they're fighting against each other, it's going to be too tight, or it's, or it's going to be too loose. And so when I know I'm listening to that, I don't want to You can't me, or why bother. I'm a hot mess, it doesn't matter. I'm hopefully helpless and hopeless, then I know, I need to stop. And I go, okay, something, that's my ego, that is my ego, that is afraid. And it's trying to trick me. And that is when I say I'm not going to do anything. I need to ask for help. I think earlier in one of the podcasts, I said, you know, either I practice my surrender to spirit, because I say, either help me through this or take it from me. And I presencing, and come in a way, give me the signs and the wonders and come in a way that I know, it is coming from my ideal future self. the one that is living the most beautiful, fruitful life and come in a way that's kind and gentle. And if you if you presence and you practice that, and then you gotta pay attention, you can't just like, throw it out there. And then duck, and fry, you actually need to find a way to record or to take, whether it's a notebook, whether it's, you know, recording on your phone, or sticky notes, or, you know, whatever have you, but you got to find a way to actually record it, because one or two things doesn't mean that it's, that's what you're supposed to do. And I think so many times I've said this to people, like Well, I'm not getting any answers like, well, that's probably because you're in rebellion, or resignation, right, you're not, you're hiding, or you're so fired up and attached to your ego, that you're not letting any space come in, to be guided.

Maren Oslac: 22:37

We're also trying to grasp at them, you know, and this really takes us back to kind of the beginning when we're talking about our process, because this is the noticing what you notice, and it's not a one and done is not a Oh, I saw an eagle that means I'm supposed to, you know, go and do that thing or whatever. It's okay, what does that, that I saw an eagle, what is it aligning with? What are the other things that I noticed that day or this week or this year? And, you know, you mentioned having a process of either a journal or sticky notes or writing it down on your phone, or one of our processes is literally talking through stuff. And I know when we talk through stuff, I have a notebook, and I include stuff and it gets written down. And then I also have an evidence wall just like, like

Stephanie Allen: 23:35

Inspector Clouseau.

Maren Oslac: 23:36

Right, exactly. And so being, I bring the My presence to that. And you do that the same thing. And so that is the difference between how we're choosing to do leadership and traditional leadership, which is my way or the highway type of thing. Where we're listening to

Stephanie Allen: 24:02

It's the timeline you know,

Maren Oslac: 24:04

it is

Stephanie Allen: 24:04

traditional leadership is like, Well, you said, you're gonna get this done, and it didn't get done, how come? What's happening, you know, we're moving on this trajectory. And if you're either with us or against us, you know, when it becomes an either or, you know, that's not, that's an old way of leadership instead of a both and, like, oh, cause now you're having a conversation. It's like, okay, this didn't get done, what happened, you know, well I got pulled over this way. And that could be your own inner distractions or not having a process, or it could be because Spirit is guiding you towards something, and you can create a space to have the conversation,

Maren Oslac: 24:38

right. So the space that this creates, the shift, when we're on those deadlines and those timelines, there isn't space for creativity, for innovation, for maybe this isn't the best way. It ends up all getting shoved down our throats literally and shoved down an assembly line of sorts. Whereas

Stephanie Allen: 25:03

even even hear the name that you just said, deadlines, it's dead in life.

Maren Oslac: 25:08

There's no life,

Stephanie Allen: 25:09

there's no growth. There's no space, there's no energy. Yeah.

Maren Oslac: 25:14

And so when you can open that up and include and collaborate and ask somebody, like you said, instead of saying, you know, why didn't you hit this deadline, you can actually turn it around and saying, what is it that happened? Was what? Get curious instead of judgmental. Because there may be a key there,

Stephanie Allen: 25:39

and I think sometimes if you find yourself somebody asking you Well, why didn't it get done Maren, and you find yourself, Maren saying, you're judging me, you're, you're, you're attacking me and you become defensive, that's a really good indication, I know, that happens for me is like, when I feel that way, I caught myself on that resignation, and rebellion level. And I'm like, Okay, I'm in a place where I'm not receptive. And I'm not open, and I'm in a fight or flight, and I'm in an either or situation. So I have to do my own internal work. And yes, it takes work, one has to practice to be able to shift it. And I go, Wait a minute, what if this is a conversation for a possibility, and if I can let go of my own inner judgment, and my own inner critic, self, and allow that the fluid and possible and loving and kind, then I can meet at a totally different place with this leader, or with this colleague, or with this partner, or whomever I am in conversation with or in relationship with them. This isn't just for business, I think this is as parents, I think this is as a couple, as friendship. As you know, even even if there's no one in physical in your life, it's like, still, this is about creating your life with a very loving presence that is actually there to help and guide you. But most of us want to silo ourselves and I got it, I got it. I can do it all by myself. And I'm sure we're going to probably talk about asking for help here soon. So that might be our next podcast. And why it's important.

Maren Oslac: 27:21

And it's what we were trained to do, you know, from very young, we were trained, don't cheat off of that person, don't look at their paper, do it yourself, you have to learn how to do everything and do it well, which actually ends up in being just a mediocre version of everything instead of an exceptional, you know, really the way we were meant to be is to have each of us be exceptional in our own gifts and strengths and then collaborate together. So I have a large soapbox, I can stand on for that one. I have a question for you. So if if somebody out there were inspired to look further into the co-creation aspect of leadership of like, I Okay, it doesn't feel good when I am in this solo place. And I would like to explore more collaboration and feel that I do live in a friendly universe. What would what would you suggest that maybe as a first step for them at this point?

Stephanie Allen: 28:36

Wow, that's a great question. All I can share is what what I've been practicing myself. This is just one skill that I've been practicing of many. But

Maren Oslac: 28:46

yeah, that's great. That's a start with one

Stephanie Allen: 28:48

often the part. Yeah, often the part that is reactive, is is a part that's very afraid, and silos myself off. And often that part, I see, I almost even imagined that part as being a child like so. And so what I'll even do is, like, be present to that, like, I almost remove myself, like I'm not in it anymore. Like I'm not actually feeling it. Actually remove myself and look outside and go, Oh, what's Stephanie look like when she is in here? Or when she's in reactivity? How does she hold her body? What is What is she thinking right now? And what is that creating in her environment? Is she getting close to this person or is she pushing them away? Is she narrow focus, or she broad focus? like I'll, I'll actually pay attention. And if I'm still acting as that child and I'll even kind of like, go to myself and I'll say, hey, younger Stephanie, or little Stephanie. What are you needing? I'm right here with you. You're not alone. I here, How can I help you? And then I take on the role of being the future, evolve self that isn't attached to what's happening. That I'm just totally loving her. Fully there for her. I'm not trying to be in retaliation. I'm trying to, like run away or fight or any of that stuff. I'm totally present to her. And it's really interesting. I actually ask her, like the part that's afraid, or scared, what do you need from me? being the present self. And it's amazing what will happen, like, sometimes she'll answer me like, sometimes she'll say, I just need you to like, not push me so hard. Or I just want to have some time to play or relax. Or you know, sometimes, she'll say something, but sometimes he doesn't. Sometimes she's just a hot mess. And she just doesn't say anything. And so I'll stay with her, I don't try to fix her, I don't try to change her, I just remind her, I'm here with you. That helps me, it gives me some space in my own heart. And give me presence, so I'm not be completely disembodied, basically disembodied by by that, that emotion. And it helps slow things down and al low me to be gentle and calm. And then I can choose a response, you know, to be responsible, rather than reactive.

Maren Oslac: 31:13

Just yeah, I love that creating the space becoming the observer of, even if you can just do it for a moment, it breaks the cycle. It breaks the cycle. And I think that that's, as leaders, we, there's an expectation put on us to have all the answers. And so, so often, we are reactive, and we don't even realize it. So having an ongoing practice of breaking that reactivity cycle to allow us to be responsive to create the space for a do something different. To be an observer of like, Oh, look at you go. Look at you go Maren. I don't think you wanted to say that out loud. Did you Maren. It wasn't

Stephanie Allen: 32:06

even from a loving place, It's like, oh, look at you go. Well, that was an interesting, that was an interesting choice of words that you just said.

Maren Oslac: 32:12

Yeah, exactly. .

Stephanie Allen: 32:14

Okay. Just saying, you know, how could I be even more loving.

Maren Oslac: 32:19

Right

Stephanie Allen: 32:19

What, for myself, not the other person, but like, what would be the most loving and kind for myself, like if I slow down and because often we see another person not as they are, but how we are. You know, so if we're, we're feeling like a scared, eight year old, we're going to see this employer or partner or, you know, instructor as someone who was like, a really critical parent. And we're trying to like, instead of saying, actually, this other person is a human being they're a lovely human being. They're, they have their own stuff, too. If I can go in and work with my eight year old and go, What do you need right now eight year old Stephanie? It's like, I just need I just need a break from it. I don't feel safe. Okay. What would you need to feel safe? What do you need to hear from me? Or what do you need from me? For you? Not against them, but for you, what, what is it that you're needing? I just need you to hold me and tell me you're gonna be okay. Yeah, you're gonna be okay. You know, and so you build this internal relationship. And so what happened was that you're creating space, and you're also evolving. And then maybe it isn't about the eight year old responding back to the other person. Maybe it's about my presence. So now stepping in and saying, I got this, you're okay. And I can ask instead of, instead of trying to project out onto them, like, you're this, and you're that, and I can then ask another question going, Right. I heard you say, there, Is that what you meant? Or was I was I just my eight year old self that was a little triggered? Probably was. Yeah. I heard you say, you know, you never have time for it. You know, I never have time. And is that what you mean? Or is it that you would actually like more time with me? Because if that's true, let's let's put some more time together. Because I don't need to react or retaliate or go into resignation, any of that stuff. I can save my energy and save this relationship and come to a new place. I, it takes practice, man, I'm telling you I'm so not perfect at this. But you know, let me tell ya. I got lots of people who were helping me with practice with it. Let me tell you, and that's good. And I think that's a different way of looking at it. Instead of saying like, I'm a hot mess. You can go Yeah, obviously, I really do want to, I want to evolve. I want to grow from this. So I want to keep practicing. I want to get better.

Maren Oslac: 34:49

I've started to embrace the messy middle, like Yeah, that's I I would actually much rather be in the messy middle then like, Alright, I'm all done. I got it. Because when I'm all done, and I got it like, that means I'm in a grave somewhere. So I'm in the I'm in the messy middle. Yep, absolutely. Great. Well, hopefully that answered some of your questions on our process. It probably brought up more questions about how that works. And if it did, that's great. I love that. That's our goal. I think that I think for both me and for Stephanie, if we get you thinking more in terms of questions than answers, we will have felt like we're a huge success. So hopefully it brought up lots, lots of questions, and we're happy to explore those with you in our Facebook group or in our LinkedIn group. So join us there. You can also find us on YouTube. And you can get our free download from our website at the soulful leader podcast.com. We'll see you all next week.

Stephanie Allen: 36:11

And that wraps up another episode of the soulful leader podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen,

Maren Oslac: 36:17

and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website at the soulful leader podcast.com.

Stephanie Allen: 36:28

Until next time,