Stop Reacting, Own Your Zen

A reaction triggers a reaction, which triggers another, and another. As leaders, this can turn into an out of control snowball. How do you get it under control? Even better, how do you keep it from happening in the first place.

Problems, attacks and blow ups often end with blaming, shaming and an adrenaline fueled internal running commentary. All that energy needs to go somewhere - lashing out at someone else, or being internalized. Regardless, it’s a lose lose.

The good news is - it’s just a pattern, and patterns can be broken. 

Stephanie and Maren have a spirited discussion about this critically important subject. They share their own stories along with great insights, ways of shifting perspectives (and patterns) and practical tools to set up a new modus operandi so you can own your Zen.

• 09:54 Chain reactions: the inflammatory response - external and internal
• 19:18 Peace is a side effect - The Ox & the Monkey Story
• 24:00 Replacing judgment with compassion, changing how/where we get our dopamine hits

“I don't want to get my dopamine hits from blame and shame and not being good enough anymore. I want to get my dopamine hits from joy, and beauty, and love instead.” - Maren Oslac

TRANSCRIPT

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Transcript

Maren Oslac: 0:04

In a world where achievements and accolades motivate us to do more and be more, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Stephanie Allen: 0:12

deep inside, you know, there is more to life, you're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper life that's calling you.

Maren Oslac: 0:20

That's where we excel. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.

Stephanie Allen: 0:26

And this is the soulful leader podcast.

Maren Oslac: 0:29

Sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've uncovered to help you make shift happen.

Stephanie Allen: 0:42

Hi, welcome to the soulful leader podcast. This is Stephanie and I'm here with Maren and holy cow, you better like, put your seatbelt on for this one, because this has got a lot of fire, a lot of fire a lot of energy. And it's a hot topic about reactivity and responsiveness. And, you know, have you ever have you ever been in a relationship where someone just freakin pushes your button every single time. And you want to like reach, like you have all these little thought bubbles going on. And you have one scenario where you reach over and you like wrap their neck and you shake them. And then you have another one where you blow them up. It's like these little comic strips, you know. And yet, there's internally, it's like you have one foot on the gas in your car and the other foot on the brake, and you're all revved up and nowhere to go. That is what this podcast is all about today. So Maren, you've got a great story, I, that we can start us off with I would love to hear this soulful leader reactivity responsive journey that you've been on recently.

Maren Oslac: 1:46

So for the past week, there's been this interesting situation going on in my life, there was a leader that I work with, and she was offended by something and stepped down from her leadership position. And this happens all the time in our in our world, right? That's, that's what we see a lot of people do. And she had signed a contract and, you know, basically blew up the contract, etc. And one of my jobs was to try and find out where, where she had been with the things that she was in process. Like, she had things in process, right as, as we do with as leaders, right, we have things in process that we're responsible for. And basically she put up a wall and I was like, nope, not giving any information, not gonna go there. And then started

Stephanie Allen: 2:41

So she shut down. So I did

Maren Oslac: 2:42

she shut down.

Stephanie Allen: 2:43

So it's like she has all this information and nowhere to go. So what she did instead of sharing and asking for help, which is we've talked to on soulful leaders, she shut down and did what? what did she do when she shut down and went inward?

Maren Oslac: 2:57

Well, yeah, she she reacted. So the reaction, what I think of as the reaction is that she basically said, f-you, hell, no, I'm not doing this. And it's very much like a little kid of like, I don't want to You can't make me

Stephanie Allen: 3:16

and made a mess and left everybody with a mess to pick up. Exactly. Like Like, like a small child in a temper tantrum. Right. So of a grocery store and in the candy aisle, right.

Maren Oslac: 3:28

And there's a justification for it because she was offended. And it didn't seem like she was being supported the way that she thought she should be supported. And you know, it's like all of the justifications. And I think that's the difference between us as adults, when we throw a temper tantrums, and children when they throw theirs. Children don't know how to handle, how to justify it, right? They just scream and yell until they get what they want. Whereas with as adults, we scream and yell or shut down or you know, say f-you, and then we justify it to ourselves to everybody else. Yeah. And try to get everybody on board with how we're justifying it.

Stephanie Allen: 4:08

We're just fancy children basically, all dressed up in a nice, you know, Chanel outfit or something and heels. I don't know. It doesn't mean that we are actually any further ahead as children. We're just, we just have more money, or we have more chutzpah, I don't know.

Maren Oslac: 4:26

And the thing for me in looking at it was there's two things one, I got to look at myself and where I keep doing that and where I'm being a temper, temper tantrum throwing child. And I also like I have so much compassion for her because she's had a hard life. And when we react, what we do is we're not actually reacting from who we are. We're reacting from a pattern that came from our life,

Stephanie Allen: 4:58

which has informed who we are. so when someone says that It's who we think we are exactly exactly who we think we are exactly. Thank you, Maren. Because we end up saying a statement like, well, that's just who I am. I can't change. Because this that, and the other thing that's happened in my life has made me this way. And so therefore, we are imprisoned and we feel that there is no way you know, an old dog can't learn new tricks. It's too late for me. Thanks very much. Here I am. Take it or leave it.

Maren Oslac: 5:28

I love that. I love that description. Because that's so, that's, that's, That's what we do. Right? We, we give all the just, this is the justification. Yeah, I was talking about we justify why. And when we've had a hard life, when we've had things that happen to us, it's easy to justify it. And those are true things. Like if you've been through abuse, if you've, you know, got an addiction, if you're, you know, and we've all had something that's horrible that's happened to us. So there's always a justification. Well, I'm like this, because that person broke into my house five years ago, and stole all of my stuff. Mm hmm. Yeah, that's a good justification that would, I would understand it. So then people end up taking sides, I either understand or don't understand. And now it's a right, wrong, good, bad, very binary, this or that situation,

Stephanie Allen: 6:29

you know, just as you're talking, I'm exhausted, I'm already exhausted. It's like, I don't even want to show up. And I think that's what happens is that people either go, you know what, I'm not even gonna go into that environment. We talked about culture, right? company culture, and, you know, it's like, I'm not even going to go into that field, because I just can't even handle that, that culture. And so now, what am I going to do? and we keep isolating ourselves and isolating ourselves. And I'm not saying that we want to go into, you know, unhealthy relationships with other people or other things, but it's like, we can't change anyone, anyone ever, outside of ourselves, exactly. The only person we can change is inside with who we are. And so what Joe Dispenza often says is we have to break the habit of being ourselves. And you know, that's like a momentum, I always say, think of think of a ball rolling down the hill, like it once it, you know, it might be a little hard to get started. But once it gets started, it just keeps rolling, it goes faster, and faster and faster. And so it's hard to stop. But here's the thing, something that's moving, actually is easier to change direction.

Maren Oslac: 7:35

Well, and the interesting thing is that when we, so first of all, there is an option other than reacting, because like I said, reaction just comes from a pattern, it's not who you are. So there is something behind that pattern. Who is you the authentic you. And the ball rolling down the hill is the pattern.

Stephanie Allen: 8:01

Well, and I often get clients to talk about this too, because they'll say, you know, they're always looking outside of themselves and valuing themselves based on someone else's opinion of them, or their bank accounts, opinion of them, or whatever. They're looking outside the weather. Oh, the weather is bad. I feel bad. Oh, the weather is good. I feel happy. Oh, you know, well,

Maren Oslac: 8:19

this person did this to me, so I'm happy. This person did that to me, so I'm upset

Stephanie Allen: 8:23

It's the justification, right. And it doesn't mean that you don't feel your feelings. And it doesn't mean that you can't be happy when when it's sunshine. Sure you can. The thing is, if we're dependent on it, if we're attached to it, we will never ever be free. And that's, sho how do we make the shift, right? Like, what is required then, is that we need to find that way inside. And that is the road less traveled. We've talked about this many times. And it's like, even what does that mean to go inside? That doesn't mean to isolate and remove yourself from the world. Although it may take a time to just stop and go inward and listen to the internal world that's going on. Because I can tell you, if outside is a hot mess, I can tell you you got a hot mess It does inside. It's a mirror. It's a mirror people. And there's nothing wrong with that. Because I often say you know our mess is our magic. It's like we have all of this hot messiness going on love for yourself and love her because when we're talking of inside of ourselves. Because we also have the lifeforce and the light to transform it. I am so tired of people saying, you reaction, you had mentioned about this too. It's like, you know, pivoting or adaptations to a certain situation. It's like, no, there is no adaptation, there is no pivoting. Really true resiliency is evolving. It means taking all that hot messiness, its energy and being able to then compost it and turn it into something beautiful. That takes a practice that takes a community that takes you know, love, it takes love. know, this unfortunate, this woman who's having a really volatile reaction. And if you think of any kind of skin reaction, or an allergy reaction or something like that, that it grows, and it's itchy, and it's irritating. And what do you want to do to something that's reactive, you want to scratch it, you want to give it energy. And you just hold, Don't scratch it, just leave it alone are you like nuts? It's making me crazy. I got a scratch, I got a scratch. So it takes a certain level of discipline of actually being still and and making a different choice. Yeah, because you tell me, talk to me talk to us about the reaction and how damaging

Maren Oslac: 10:34

the things that I found is that the real place to make the shift is there has to be some space. So I think what you're talking about with like, you know, like when we get bitten by a mosquito, and we want it just itching, itching, it just makes it more itchy. And then you know, it's like, it's this ongoing thing. What happens with a reaction is, unless there is someone who can stop the, the reaction, it becomes a chain of reactions. Right? So if I am volatile, and I'm not controlling myself, and I'm in a reactionary mode, I am more than likely going to bring that out in you. The other place that it's a chain reaction is in my own head. And you started with this of like, all of those when your foot's on the grass, and also on the brake, and you have all this energy and you can't go anywhere. Well guess what it explodes inside of us. And we have 8 billion thought bubbles of good, bad and like ugly, right? It just is like I want to rip that person's eyes out, I want to do this they deserve then all of the stuff. That's a chain reaction that's gone off inside of you.

Stephanie Allen: 11:49

And that's where chronic pain comes from a lot of it. If you haven't had a direct impact of something, a lot of times, you know, a chronic pain or dis ease illness is caused from an internal reaction and implement implement. Okay,

Maren Oslac: 12:06

influence, inflamatory

Stephanie Allen: 12:08

Thank you. An inflammatory response is what's happening, you know, so do you have any inflammation? I'm like, what has got you inflamed?

Maren Oslac: 12:15

Yeah, that's a great question. And that takes me right back to the space. So the thing that I found for myself is, I have started asking a single question, which is, what else is going on here? What else is going on here, because when I find myself in a reactor, when in a reactor, right, in in a in a in a reactionary mode, it's always because I, it's like I said, it comes from a pattern from my past, that pattern has recreated itself in my present. So if I am a victim, I will create myself into another victim mode. Here's a great example from my own life. I recently had some problems with my back. And I noticed that oftentimes, when I have problems with my back, it's because I'm a strong and independent woman, and I have trouble asking for help.

Stephanie Allen: 13:23

And you don't need anyone,

Maren Oslac: 13:25

I don't need anyone.

Stephanie Allen: 13:26

That's the that's the lower self belief, not not your true self.

Maren Oslac: 13:31

And so in order for me to ask for help, I cause a physical issue in my life. And then I can ask for help. I can also be a martyr. Poor me, I'm so brave. I can do it. Does this resonate with anyone out there? I'm sure I'm not the only one,

Stephanie Allen: 13:54

it gets you attention, it gets you accolades. And yet internally, this is what happens to is like when there's chronic pain, or disease or illness, or, and I'm not just talking physical, I'm talking mentally and emotionally and just like, you know, when things aren't working out the way you really want them to be working out, you know, we can default back into this martyr mode, or this poor me, I'm suffering or I have pain mode, because it gets us attention, and it gets us addicted to a inflammatory response inside, that's actually giving us a hormonal rush. Yeah. And it's the easiest way to do it, because we have a pattern that we have habitually practiced that now we can instantly tune into and we can get our pharmaceutical hit right away. But all it takes is just exactly

Maren Oslac: 14:45

just takes a little bit of pain. If I just put myself in a little bit of pain, whether it's emotional pain or physical pain, and then I get that rush from a internal chemicals and then I can justify it

Stephanie Allen: 14:56

and we will make it all about the outside world. You know, to justify it. Yeah. But if we can turn it into, or we'll make it all about our internal world that we're we're not good enough. And we're horrible. And, you know, this always happens to me Poor me.

Maren Oslac: 15:09

And this is where my question comes in, of what else? Because there's always something else going on? What else is going on here?

Stephanie Allen: 15:20

And what is this giving me permission? Right? Yeah,

Maren Oslac: 15:26

there needs to be something that we ask or that we, that, that helps us to stop the rolling ball, you mentioned the rolling ball earlier of like, it's going downhill, it's gathering steam. And that's the poor me, that's the drama, that's the itty bitty shitty committee that's going through our head. So there needs to be some tool that we have some practice that we start, and then continue with, to help us to break the pattern to say, to stop the ball from rolling downhill for just a moment. And for me, that's the question, what else is going on here? What am I giving my self permission to do? And I realized, what was nice for me was when I saw this woman's pattern and what she was doing, and that she was blowing herself up and, and she's got a history of, you know, abuse in her past and there's no blame or shame there. That's where she is in her life. She needs that, she's getting her chemicals and, and she needed to make that space for herself. That's great. I also saw it gave me an opportunity to stop and go, oh Maren, look at, you're doing that in your own life right now, too.

Stephanie Allen: 16:37

Yeah, a lot of times, you know, when somebody is acting out or different ways, it's, it's giving us an opportunity to choose a new behavioral pattern that we want to install into our life. And that's where we have to have regular practice enough that we can say, Oh, I just caught a pattern or just caught where my breath got taken away, or I'm into reaction, note to self. Now I know when that happens, sit back inside myself, find the little me inside me that's literally having a hot, you know, hot potato mess or whatever you want to call it. And I go and get her. I rescue her rather than rescue the person outside because that's a pattern of mine is rescuing. And learning to turn it inward to say, what if I rescued myself right now? What is that part needing within me so that I'm not in reactivity. But I can be in responsiveness and you just go in and you go in. And this is an effort, it is a practice. And to do it, I always say do it when you don't need it, so that you'll remember it when you do,

Maren Oslac: 17:39

right. Because when those chemicals are firing in our bodies, we don't want to stop them, we won't want to, right? So when somebody is in, like I said reaction tends to cause a chain reaction. So somebody comes at you in their reactive mode, blaming you for something, shaming you for something, whatever it is, we go into our reactive mode defending ourselves, right? And in that moment, if you can start to go, okay, I can listen from a place of non responsive, non reactiveness. Now I'm in responsiveness. And it may mean that I can say I have to say to that person, can I get back to you? I need to get back to you on that.

Stephanie Allen: 18:30

Yeah, or even just think can can I just give me five minutes, right? Five minutes, don't even Can I just like, I just need five minutes. And I'm going to come right back. I just need 5 minutes for a sec. And that you take that five minutes or however long you choose. And you go and you breathe. And you find that part that's reactive and say what is this pattern? Right? And I often have

Maren Oslac: 18:50

or what else could be going on here? Right. Like that person that just attacked me. it's not personal it's because they are in reaction. And can I listen past the attack to find out what's really going on. Because 99.9% of the time it's got nothing to do with us and we take it personally and take it on ourselves and then the chain reaction goes on in us and we pass it on to somebody else.

Stephanie Allen: 19:18

That's right it's a it's a virus, it becomes a virus and if we are looking for world peace you know we always say that but what does that, you know the very common thing What do you want? world peace. but it's it's like peace. It is not about the peace outside. I mean, that's that's a side effect. That's a side effect. It's not about doing more it's actually about going in and finding out where you're at war within yourself and where where patterns are literally robbing you of your own personal freedom or dream killing you know, the the murders inside yourself that are killing your dreams and your ideals and, and, you know, literally sabotaging the beauty that you are,

Maren Oslac: 20:03

yeah,

Stephanie Allen: 20:03

I have a great story that kind of sums a lot of this up. It's a good teaching story. And it's a story of the ox and the monkey. And once upon a time, there was a really strong wise ox, who was responsible for looking after this beautiful meadow. And he loved this meadow of so beautiful, filled with flowers and beauty. And he was just so grateful to be able to be a steward of this area. And so every day, the ox would go up the hill, and sit under a tree, and just be present to what was present. And this was his practice. And in the tree, though, there lived a monkey. And that monkey was just like, every monkey was mischievous and playful. And, and, you know, it was kind of bored. And so we would always be excited when the ox would come up, because it had someone to kind of be with. the monkey, instead of being kind and pleasant, the monkey would be a little bit annoying, and would take apples and throw it at the ox and try to you know, get the ox stirred up. And the ox would never move, if it just be calm and present. And in one day, you know, the monkey jumped on the ox's rump, it's on its back and started, you know, dancing this little thing on his back, and the ox was completely at peace, as if there was a butterfly dancing, never flinched, never gave it any time or energy. And this went on day after day, month, after month, year after year. And then the monkey finally said, you know, I need I need to really, really move this ox. I'm like motivated. Now I just really want to get some energy from this Ox. and it jumped on its head, grabbed its horns and was like rearing its horns. Now, this ox is super strong. All it had to do was shake its head and that monkey would have been flown, you know, sky high. And with his strong limbs, he could have just crushed that monkey. But he didn't. And a good fairy noticed this, and came to the ox one day and said, Ox, you are my teacher. That monkey is constantly after you. And yet you are so peaceful. You are so calm, you don't react. Where do you get the wisdom? How, How is it that you don't react and want to kill the monkey? And the ox replied, you know, spirit gave monkey a very small brain. I can't, I can't fault the monkey for that. And you know, the monkey is doing what the monkey does. That's what monkeys do. I can't fault them for that either. I just accept the monkey, for the monkey. And I focus on what I love and what is beautiful. And all the things that I'm grateful for. And I keep coming back to that. I just keep coming back. And the good fairy said, You have taught me a valuable lesson. So I'm going to give you a gift. And I'm going to send that monkey away to a wonderful place that he can never come back from. So that you may have peace. And they lived happily ever after.

Maren Oslac: 23:32

I love I love fairy tales. And I think it's great because you know we're in oftentimes we call we call it the itty bitty shitty committee. And it's basically monkey mind the the host of internal voices that want to tell us to basically keep jumping on our back and, and you know, like playing with our horns and they want to distract us.

Stephanie Allen: 24:00

They want to get energy, we want to get energy, they want to be fed, they want to be, I don't know, distracted, all those different things in our world is to distract us from going inside. Because a lot of times we create this reactivity and this inflammation in this world, so that we don't have to look too closely at ourselves. We don't have to then change our patterns and our behaviors.

Maren Oslac: 24:23

Yeah, so it's so hard. We're not taught. We're taught to react. We're not taught to respond. And we're not taught to look at ourselves,

Stephanie Allen: 24:36

with love with kindness,

Maren Oslac: 24:37

with love or with kindness. You're right, because we are taught to look at ourselves.

Stephanie Allen: 24:41

But yeah, we're taught it's usually with judgment and justification. And so if we have a different energy behind it like the ox did, you know he was grateful. He was he was responsive in the way of that internal and

Maren Oslac: 24:56

he was clear

Stephanie Allen: 24:56

and he had a practice and he had a practice

Maren Oslac: 24:58

and he was clear that A, what the monkey was doing had nothing to do with him. It was what monkeys do. And so when someone comes at us, and they're attacking us, or they're saying something that we, you know, interpret, whatever it is, it's not about us, it's about that person. And when we can really get that, it makes it so much easier to respond. And when I say respond, it's to come back with compassion, with love. And I can't come back to somebody else with compassion and love, unless I can come back to myself.

Stephanie Allen: 25:41

And I actually the key that is the key. So taking those practices in, right,

Maren Oslac: 25:47

that's where what you were talking about earlier of doing inner practices of taking time of like, what would it take to make space in my life. And sometimes we keep ourselves so busy. And this is one of the things that I saw with this particular leader, she is got so much going on. I don't know how she does it all. And she doesn't do it all. That's the thing is because she's keeping herself so busy. And this is, you know, what I see in myself as well, I keep myself so busy, that I oftentimes don't make time or space, to have that inner dialogue to say, Hmm, what else could be going on here? To look for the patterns and say, You know what, I don't want to get my dopamine hits from blame and shame and not being good enough anymore. From that old pattern. I want to get my dopamine hits from joy, and beauty, and love instead.

Stephanie Allen: 26:53

So being able to ask yourself the question when you feel reactive, and that reactivity could be to blast out at somebody or to run away and isolate, or just to absolutely freeze with fear and uncertainty. In those moments, when you have that visceral reaction internally. Then you can ask yourself, what is the what is the behavior I want to now practice that isn't reactive, that is more responsive, what would be the ideal behavior? and sometimes you might hear nothing, which is exactly probably action to do is just breathe. Just breathe and be still like the ox. I you know, that's going to be my mantra now be the ox,

Maren Oslac: 27:37

be the Ox

Stephanie Allen: 27:38

be the Ox. You know

Maren Oslac: 27:40

I think what you said about breathing and being still, I would say like 90% of the time, that's actually the answer. That's the solution that you seek is not something else to do. It's not something to say it's not. It's just being exactly. Give space to yourself being the Ox. I love it. Well, thank you so much. This was a fun conversation. At least I enjoyed it. Hopefully, you enjoyed it too. And remember that you can find us on Facebook and LinkedIn and on YouTube under the soulful leaders. And we will see you all next week on the soulful leader podcast.

Stephanie Allen: 28:31

And that wraps up another episode of the soulful leader podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen

Maren Oslac: 28:38

and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website at the soulful leader podcast.com.

Stephanie Allen: 28:48

Until next time,