Questioning Control, Life Beyond the Reins

Control, where does it fit into our lives? Does it serve us? Or is it holding us back?

In this week’s podcast, Maren and Stephanie have an open conversation about control that will have you looking more deeply at these questions in your own life. 

We’re taught that control is the answer to all of our problems. If we could just get control over our lives, our teams, our eating, our bodies, etc. Control as an ideal is pervasive, especially amongst leaders. Yet there is a place beyond control that speaks to us of freedom. How do we reach that, and where might it fit into our everyday experience? Is our penchant for control actually keeping us stuck?

Step out of the ordinary and explore these ‘control’ questions, the power of imagination, living outside of time - and more. This is the perfect podcast for this Halloween night where it’s said that the veils between the worlds are thinner and anything is possible!

• 03:16 leadership, control and Richard Branson
• 08:07 outer control is false safety
• 13:31 Imagination as a practice
• 17:29 Spending or Investing your time, Become a Thought Pioneer
• 23:51 The Power of living outside of time

LINKS

14:04 Movie: Everything Everywhere All At Once

TRANSCRIPT

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Transcript

Maren Oslac: 0:04

In a world where achievements and accolades motivate us to do more and be more, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Stephanie Allen: 0:12

deep inside, you know, there is more to life, you're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper life that's calling you.

Maren Oslac: 0:20

That's where we excel. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.

Stephanie Allen: 0:26

And this is the soulful leader podcast,

Maren Oslac: 0:29

sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've uncovered to help you make shift happen. Welcome back to the soulful leader podcast. This is Maren and I'm here with Stephanie. And we're talking today about control. And I think that's a it's a huge red flag in our lives, right? The word control. We all want control, we fight for control, control is idealized, like the person who has the most power has control. Like there's, there's so much around control. But like

Stephanie Allen: 1:15

who doesn't have control issues, right? If we get really get down to it.

Maren Oslac: 1:19

Right! And, and that's one of the things it's like, we think that control is the answer to like all of our problems, that's, if we could just get control over our lives, if we could get control over our, our teams, if we could get control over our eating, if we could get control over our bodies, if we you know, like, there's this idea that control is an ideal. And I, going into this conversation, I think one of the things I want to say to our listeners is, this is not about an answer. Stephanie and I are really fascinated with this subject. And this, we wanted to have a conversation with you guys today around control, and where does it fit into our lives? And does it actually really serve us?

Stephanie Allen: 2:14

You know, and I think a lot, a lot of times people will make decisions based on whether or not they're going to have control or whether they're in control or not. Meaning, you know, many of us go into our own business, because we want control over our money. We want control over our time and our energy and our, you know, our freedom, we want our freedom, or we have children because we want control over someone else. Because we don't have control over ourselves. And so we have control over little people or whatever, like, you know, it becomes an how many of us know that we've had somebody in our life that has tried to control us or we feel controlled by them. You know, this is an interesting thing. I mean, I can totally admit where I've had control, like, you know, I have to fold my towels a certain way, I have to put the toilet paper roll on a certain way. And if it doesn't happen, it's wrong. Like it's no, that's not how you fold toilet, you know, toilet paper has to go this way. And the towels have to go this way. And the really, in the big scheme of thing, like doesn't really matter.

Maren Oslac: 3:16

I think about that, especially as a leader, right. So one of the things I remember, a mentor of both of ours had talked about is as as you become a better leader, and I think about somebody like Richard Branson. And one of the things that I like about Richard Branson, is that he's stopped needing control over his people, and in stepping back, and instead of needing to tell them how to do things, he empowers them. And that's one of the things you know, we were just talking about the fact that like, is control- We tend to idealize it both as individuals and as a society and yet, here's somebody who is obviously super successful in business, and he has stepped back and let go of control. And that's one of the tenants of his being successful in business is that he does not tell his people how to do things. And oftentimes he doesn't even show up to meetings because one of the things that he's realized is that when he steps into the room, people surrender their control, their ideas, what what they know, because they assume that he knows more. So he steps back to make space for them and empower them he lets go of his control. I'm using quote marks, quote unquote, control.

Stephanie Allen: 5:02

Yeah. You know, and so when I look at that sometimes people will think, Well, there's so irresponsible, why don't they get a grip? You know, and I look at that with people with hand pain, they'll say, you know, where do you feel like you've lost grip, you've lost control. And you're holding on, because that's what we do is like, if we feel afraid, we cling harder. And physically or mentally or emotionally, spiritually, we cling harder. And so if we're still we, we tend to, we tend to use that control as a way of protecting ourselves for feeling unsafe or unworthy. And so we like the little little, we have that saying of like, the little man syndrome, and you know, a Little Big Man Syndrome, like someone who's small, and I'm small, I'm saying I'm small. And so, you know, we tend to look at our stature our outer world, like if we don't have the money, the car, the power that whatever the

Maren Oslac: 5:58

so I want to, I want to interrupt you there, exterior, because I think this is, you know, like, what does it take for somebody like Richard Branson, or any of us to let go of control to say, you know, what, it's okay if somebody else makes a decision, and they're right, or they're wrong, it works. It doesn't work, whatever, it doesn't matter? It's okay. And I think this is what you're getting at it. Yeah, is it takes an internal, I have to be okay with me inside, right. In order for me to let go of know, the fold, the towels have to be folded this way.

Stephanie Allen: 6:39

Oh, right. And I mean, I see people that with control of their finances in the way of, well, I'm gonna stay in this job, because I've got five more years left, before I retire. But they have no life, right now. They have no life. They're miserable. It's eroding them spiritually, mentally and emotionally. And it's taking a toll eventually, physically, if it hasn't already, but yet they're willing to pay the price. Because they think they're going to have more control of their life if they stay. And whether that's true or untrue, it doesn't matter is I'm saying, let's explore. What is it that you're believing that if you didn't, like, we don't know what's gonna happen in five years, maybe we don't even have money, money may not even exist. And we, I'm not, I'm just saying, hypothetically, it could be totally on a bartering system. And if you haven't invested in making good friends with your neighbors, it doesn't matter how much money you have. Because money doesn't mean anything. I'm just using as a as an example. But your investment in relationship of, oh, well, you know, this person is really good at that skill, and I need that skill, in order for me, and I'm terrible at that skill, if that makes any sense. You know? It's like the old bartering system. I don't know. I'm just really interested in this whole control and power aspect of that, because it's essentially eroding our freedom.

Maren Oslac: 8:05

Yeah, and I want to take us back to that. It really does come from an internal empowerment, if I feel safe. So I think a lot of times we go for for control in the outer world to make us feel safe internally. And that's actually backwards. Because if I can get to where I feel safe, and think about a place where you feel safe in your life, right? I feel very safe with my husband, I feel very safe in my home. So if something goes sideways, or you know, he does something wrong, it's not that big a deal to me, I'm like, whatever, you know, we'll make it work. It's okay. Places where I don't feel safe. Say for example, just recently, I had an issue with a contract. And I have to hire a lawyer. I don't know contracts. It makes me nervous. It makes me uncomfortable. I don't feel safe there. So I needed to feel like all everything, all the i's were dotted, all the T's were crossed. Everything had to be I had to control it all. And that, by the way, that didn't work at all, it exploded in my face and like, nothing actually worked. And I had to step back into what I know about myself is that I trust that I will show up and honor my side of the contract and that I have the money and the resources should the other person not honor their side of the contract. And so fine, let's go for it. I'm okay. That's the internal. I got to the point in myself to feel like I am internally safe. And then I could let go of that control on the outside. But out there didn't actually make me feel safe in here.

Stephanie Allen: 10:14

Yeah, I think sometimes we even control inside to like, you know, we people please or we adapt our personality, in order to manipulate or control the situation by people pleasing or doing the quote unquote, right thing so that we're not abandoned or we're not, you know, disappointed by someone's thoughts or views of us, there's that level too.

Maren Oslac: 10:35

that's still trying to get that in the outer right, we're manipulating

Stephanie Allen: 10:38

100%

Maren Oslac: 10:38

to try and find the control in the outer.

Stephanie Allen: 10:42

That's what I'm saying. It's like even even, well, the places I feel safe. Like, what if, like you were saying, with your husband or at home or different things, but it's like, even go deeper in that it's like, do you feel safe with, and I'm going to use like higher power, God, Spirit, the universe? like, What's your relationship with this? I'm talking like a soul remedy here. Of like, what are your belief systems? What do you like, where do you go at nighttime, when you go to sleep? Where do you go after we were done with his body suit? What are your beliefs? And do you believe that it's like, I don't know, this kind of sounds spiritual or religious. I'm not saying that. But it's like,

Maren Oslac: 11:21

they're big, the big questions

Stephanie Allen: 11:22

if I, if I haven't got a place to rest inside myself, where I can totally feel safe, inside, regardless of what mayhem, or pleasantries are going on outside of me. Regardless. If that place inside me isn't like a sanctuary, then I will always be all I'll even be controlling myself internally to try to make the external control. And it's just such a waste of energy.

Maren Oslac: 11:54

Yeah,

Stephanie Allen: 11:54

that's a waste of time and energy, you know?

Maren Oslac: 11:57

So one of the things I hear you saying is like, having some sort of, I guess, for lack of a better term, a spiritual practice.

Stephanie Allen: 12:08

Yeah,

Maren Oslac: 12:09

A place where you can turn internally, and feel safe, and loved and accepted. Like, I'm whole, I'm an absolutely whole perfect human being.

Stephanie Allen: 12:26

Right. You know, now, some people will say, Well, I have that in nature, I go out into the woods, or I and that, which is beautiful, too, or my garden.

Maren Oslac: 12:33

beautiful, And those are great things. But again, in an instant, we could lose those things. Again, there's still like, do you have the inner nature inside, you have the forest inside yourself where you can rest? And so even, I guess I'm talking also your imagination? What are you imagining, because if you're imagining worst case scenarios, then you're going to have control issues. If you're imagining only beautiful, wonderful things happening, and I'm not talking the power of positive thinking. I'm actually going in, like you said, Maren, and having a spiritual practice to actually cultivate a new image or a new ideal, and to be working at not figuring it out. But actually having a place that is so beautiful, beyond nature in the outer world, like and nature in the outer world is amazingly beautiful, but to cultivate that within oneself, where you can go and rest and have sanctuary. And do you have a practice? Is there something? Is there a practice that you can share with our audience that might help them? because some of them may have that and some of them may not. It may not make sense, like, I know, for myself, when when I learn about something new, or somebody uses terms that I'm kind of familiar with, but they seem like they're using it in a different way. Sometimes when I have something tangible, like an actual practice, it makes more sense to me or I can understand it.

Stephanie Allen: 14:01

Oh, 100%

Maren Oslac: 14:02

So is there anything that you can share?

Stephanie Allen: 14:04

There was a recent movie, Everything but so often we shame ourselves for that. Right? Right. Everywhere All At Once. Yeah, you know, and I highly recommend it. I kind of that's kind of my practice, you know, the main character is, she daydreams a lot. So she kind of goes off into these other worlds and imagines, like kind of an ulterior, another life that she could have lived. And she just gives herself like, a little, a little holiday, a little trip to that place. And I think we all do that. We all have, like, Oh, if I hadn't gotten married or oh, if I hadn't, you know, taken that job or if I had moved to this place, like we always say if if only or should have, could have, woulda, ought tos. So we imagine and, Instead of actually making it a practice of like, what if you went to visit another version of yourself in another world. I mean, this is like Marvel Comics, right? Let's go to the metaverse, you know, in, in another universe and another world where you have mastered those skills, those ideals, and you're living a completely different life. And you've got to know that version of yourself there, what guidance, that's essentially what my practice is. And so whatever it is that I'm struggling with in my life, maybe I don't feel safe, like maybe I'm lost and confused, and I don't know what my purpose in my life or, you know, I don't have clarity in some area of my life, then, what I will do is, I'll say, Okay, on another universe, I've got this all sorted out. So I'm gonna go and visit her, whatever she's doing, like, she's got it all figured out, I'm gonna go hang out with her. And I go, when I travel, I time travel, in my mind, in my mind, I time travel, imagination. And I will go and hang out with her. And I mean, she might look different, she might be a different age, she might not have anything to do with anything on the earth plane, it might be completely cartoons, it could be anything, I don't know, it could be absolutely anything, it's like your imagination is literally your greatest tool. And the more one practices the imaginal realm, the more you can start to embody those qualities, you take them in. And so if you get a chance to watch the movie, Everything Everywhere All at Once, it's kind of what happens, you know, she kind of looks at where she's taken her energy and put it in all these different worlds. And when we do that, it's just vacating, right? Like, it's just vacating your energy, and you actually disperse your time and your energy and you don't have enough, but if you have a way of practicing, and of actually cultivating it, and bringing it into the now and saying, Okay, what would that self do right now, if she showed up in this body, and you talked about Richard Branson? I mean, that was one of our mentors that said to us years ago, if Richard Branson woke up in your body tomorrow morning, and had your life, how would Richard Branson operate it? Probably very differently. You know, or you can do that with any great being that you see as an exemplar or a mentor in your life, and say, well, if they came and inhabited my body, how would they speak, see, think, hear experience this completely different, and they probably would change it. It's a great practice.

Maren Oslac: 17:29

I love this because so often as leaders, our day is spent and I'm using that word'spent' very consciously, because when you spend something, you no longer have it. So our day is spent in all kinds of mundane, I have to get this done. After that, I have to make sure that all of this type of stuff, instead of investing, again, using the word really, like intentionally, when we invest in something, we get dividends from it, investing in allowing our imaginations to run free. We dismiss it because as children, we were told to stop imagining, to come back to the here and now and be realistic. And all the things we were told about that. And while you were talking, I looked up a quote from Einstein, because he knew he had a quote around this. And he said, literally, Imagination is more important than knowledge. So we're talking about one of the greatest minds of our century. And his take on things is that Imagination is more important than knowledge. And one of the things I know about him is that he literally did imaginal mind experiments. And this is exactly what you're talking about, is he went into his imagination. And he did most of his experiments in his imagination, and then came back and worked in this world. So when you're talking about going and doing things, like you see in the everywhere, everything, everything everywhere, all at once. Like, it's so powerful for us. And yet, somebody somewhere along the line said, Oh, we shouldn't do that. And then we all bought that lie, and it is it's a lie. It's it's we're not embracing the power that we actually have as humans as leaders, as you know, thought pioneers, essentially.

Stephanie Allen: 19:46

Yeah, so like when we're daydreaming, you know, maybe you're fantasizing or you're daydreaming. You're investing your energy into that reality. Now you're thinking, well, it's just in my imagination, nothing really how happened, like I didn't hurt anybody. But what happens is that you actually had a visceral experience there. So remember your, you know, your, your brain doesn't know the difference between what's imagined and what's real.

Maren Oslac: 20:13

When you say your brain, I'm talking like your brain, your body, like the whole, your whole system, responds

Stephanie Allen: 20:22

responds to it.

Maren Oslac: 20:25

As if it's real,

Stephanie Allen: 20:25

Mm hmm. And so what you're doing is you're actually cultivating that energy, and you're bringing it into this now, you may not be doing that consciously, it's totally unconscious. So like when you know, when you're a kid, and you were like, just kind of daydreaming at school, staring out the window. You know, looking out the window, I really wish I was outside playing, I really don't want to be here in math class. You know, you actually there is a part of you that actually went there. And I'll see that as a bodyworker. I'll ask my clients, I'm like, where are you, because I can actually feel the person leaving. It's like Elvis has left the building. You know, Maren has left her body. And it's like, the only way to transform is actually to be in the body. And that requires us to feel what we're feeling, but also to cultivate the, like to bring it into the into this body suit. So it's very, very powerful. You want control? And then I don't mean outer control over things. It's like, what's happening is that you are actually, you're actually upgrading your system, if you choose to look at it that way. Yeah. So if it's unconscious, then you're bringing it in. And other people are also feeling that they're like, where did you go Steph? like, who, like you're not here, you're not paying attention, you're not present. And I can feel you're somewhere else. Like, the people may not even say that or not even consciously know that. But they know that on a deeper level.

Maren Oslac: 21:52

And I love that, because what you mentioned is I guess the way that I hear it is we're going to go other places all day long. Like our brain goes, you know, we're in a meeting and our brain goes, you know, this way or that way, all these different directions. It's becoming, it's, it's becoming conscious of where we went, and then choosing consciously, of, here's where I'd rather go. And that takes the practice. And this is the practice that you were just taught that you just gave us, which I love. It's like, if we start practicing with our imaginations, and you're looking for control, that is what gives you control because it's, it's what's informing your body, it's what's important to your future, it's what's. And so when our brains just go off, and we don't realize it, and that's what's that's what our bodies start to respond to. So when we have that pain in our shoulder, and we don't know why, it's more than likely, because there's some daydream that's happening. So there's some someplace where our mind is going, that's creating a reality. That's not what our conscious like, that's not what we actually want. And so we're

Stephanie Allen: 23:16

or we're caught in between two different realities, and we're feeling pulled or feeling tugged of like, where am I? Am I in the Right wrong, good, bad, you know, control? Or am I in the imaginal of possibilities? And you're stuck in between and you get pulled you get caught. And so pain can also be a very good indicator that choose, choose where do you want to be you know, and to drop into the pain be present with it and saying, what is it what is it guiding me towards? What, you know, there's so many different ways one can play, and am I am I trying to control this or we use it a good example of presence like to be present with something and we use a good image of a cat waiting for a mouse outside a mousehole. Like it's completely even though we're walking by looking at the cat going, oh my god, the cat sleeping again, the cats always sleeping. Or they seem to always be sleeping. But they're not. They're actually what's called in poise. And they if you ever watch cat's eyes are closed, they're totally relaxed, or it appears to be at but any little noise in their ears are like little radio, radar nets, going around listening carrying their tails or switching, you know, flicking and what they're doing is being very, very present of what's going on inside themselves. And they're relaxing and consciously, and they're letting go and they're softening. And what's happening is that they actually create such magnetism that by the time the mouse pops it's little unfortunate head outside of the hole, all the energy that that cat has been gaining now pounces full speed ahead onto that mouse to its demise. That's it, it's done. It can't get away. But it's like it's like a slingshot. And that's what we can do with our, with our awareness is that if we're focusing on multiple different realities, but we're not really, we're just kind of going there without any real intention. And I'm not talking about figuring it out. But I'm talking about developing the imaginal realm of like saying, I want to go and visit the Stephanie that's got this, that's mastered this, whatever this is, whatever that issue or that that challenge is. It's like, there is a, there's a future version of myself, or, there's another timeline version of myself that has already mastered this. If I go, and I hang out with her, she becomes my teacher, she becomes my mentor. And she can impart with me the skills and the resonance in order to deal with it in the now. But I need to practice that. I can't, you know, the more I practice it, the more I get, the quicker I can tune into it. And the more I develop those neural networks in my in my brain, it's so interesting, you start to become a Jedi, you start to see the future before it happens. And you're out of time, which is really cool. Like you are in your own time.

Maren Oslac: 26:20

Yeah, when you say out of time, you mean, like outside of outside of time

Stephanie Allen: 26:24

Yes, that's right. Yeah. Time does not limit you.

Maren Oslac: 26:29

Yeah. And when we think of going back to control, I mean, like, if you knew that you lived outside of time, and that none, you know, none of this stuff actually had any, quote unquote, control over you, like how empowering would that be? that that feels like that would really be, I guess, I would say, maybe the ultimate in control is letting go of control completely. So, so interesting, because it's, it is, it's, it's a dichotomy. It's

Stephanie Allen: 27:06

an you know, I want to say, to be in the not knowing, is actually to be totally out of control, which means you're outside outside of time and space. And now you're in a place that you are cultivating a totally different universe, if you so choose, otherwise, you can live, you know, you can live the repeat, you know, life of what you've been there, done that, and you just keep doing that. It's like watching the same TV show over and over and over again. And you already know the ending of that story. You know, and that's fine. If it's, if it's good, that's whatever, right but to have a different relationship with the unknown, in a way of being able to cultivate a whole new reality that is wanting to manifest through you.

Maren Oslac: 27:53

I think that, to me, that this whole discussion around control comes down to that is creating a different relationship with what we were taught is a very linear, well, it's very black and white, cut and dried, control or not control, power or no power. And truly, it's not. So what is the relationship that you have with control? What are your thoughts around it? This is, for me, what I'll be thinking about this week, and probably you too, Stephanie. And I would invite all of our listeners to also like, maybe journal around what control means to you? And how might that be different if you had a completely different relationship with it, one that allowed you to be comfortable in the unknown what that might, what might that look like? For you?

Stephanie Allen: 28:52

Yeah, and so it's all about controlling the outer, it's about going inside and being in control inside. That's, that's a practice. And that means you have to actually let go of control. To be in control.

Maren Oslac: 29:06

Ironic

Stephanie Allen: 29:06

seems like a paradox. Yeah, it's a total paradox, isn't it? Yeah. Like, you know, I have a team at my office right now that has completely, you know, in the last three years is completely changed. And then I have a new new team member who was an old team member that has come back. And that's where that practice of imagination comes in. It so And, and we have a completely different relationship. It's like, we had to kind of go off into our own little universe and then come back and meet in a new one. But like Rumi says, you know, beyond right doing and wrongdoing, there's a field, I'll meet you there. And I had this old story that I had to be in control that I had to have contracts, I had to have all these rules, I had to have all these boundaries and standards and, and, and some of that is true. And some of it isn't. Some of it also, it's like having to have that experience. Because where was that coming from? Was that coming from a fear based control that I need to be in power? or was it coming from an in empowering place? Which is, by the way, the empowering place is coming from the unknown, because I haven't been there yet. Because even if I'm empowered, I'm evolving and growing. And as I'm evolving and growing, I'm going to go into places I've never been, because that means I'm evolving and growing. That's the same thing right? empowers us. Well I would love It lightens us up, I just want to say just takes off the burden that you might be carrying the shoulda, coulda, woulda, ought tos.. you lighten up.

Maren Oslac: 30:42

What I just have this image of like the whole world lightening up and made me happy. So I would I would very much love to hear from all of our audience, and what are your thoughts on control? And do you have different thoughts on it after listening to our conversation about it today? And we would love to hear from you. Remember you can find us on YouTube, on, in LinkedIn, on LinkedIn, and on Facebook under the soulful leaders. And you can also sign up for our email list on our website and you can download our our wonderful download there. So you get it for free when you sign up for our email list and you'll get all the information about our upcoming 12 Days of Christmas which is going to be very exciting this year. So our website is the soulful leader podcast.com. And we will look forward to seeing you all next week, right here on our podcast.

Stephanie Allen: 31:53

And that wraps up another episode of the soulful leader podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen

Maren Oslac: 31:59

and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website at the soulful leader podcast.com.

Stephanie Allen: 32:10

Until next time,