The Perfection Paradox: Constriction vs. Flow

Are there advantages and disadvantages of having a perfectionistic outlook on life? On yourself?

Stephanie and Maren argue both sides of this charged subject and share their unique insights on the lower vibration and the higher vibration of perfectionism.

In the lower energy of perfectionism we’re constricted, like ice (the lower vibration of water). We're always needing to be more, to have more, never feeling good enough. We’re so busy judging that we never get to actually be present and enjoy who we are and what we have.

The higher version stems from perfection’s original meaning, that something is whole or complete. This opens possibility and flow, like water (the higher vibration of ice). If we feel whole and complete, then the judgments fall away and we have space to iterate freely and own our greatness.

This is key for leaders. Leading from a place of wholeness (perfection) means we're no longer projecting our fears and shortcomings onto the people around us.

Are you ready to bring some awareness to where perfectionism fits into your life and embrace evolving into your natural flow state?

• 04:26 Using it or being beaten up by it
• 08:57 Shifting the paradigm, harnessing the energy or our 14 year old, creating prototypes
• 12:45 Lower vibration and upper vibration, there’s science behind it
• 19:27 How do you know, and what do you do? Maren’s perfectionism process
• 24:26 Questions to uplevel your vibration
• 24:58 Stephanie’s perfectionism process

LINKS

30:53 The Great Uplift: 12 Days of Creation

TRANSCRIPT

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Transcript

Maren Oslac: 0:04

In a world where achievements and accolades motivate us to do more and be more, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Stephanie Allen: 0:12

deep inside, you know, there is more to life, you're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper life that's calling you. That's where we excel. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen,

Maren Oslac: 0:25

and Maren Oslac.

Stephanie Allen: 0:26

And this is the soulful leader podcast,

Maren Oslac: 0:29

sit back and relax as we share the shortcuts we've uncovered to help you make shift happen.

Stephanie Allen: 0:41

Hi, welcome to the soulful leader podcast. This is Stephanie and I'm here with Maren. And today we're talking about an interesting little critter that goes on in almost everybody's inner dialogue. And that's perfectionism. And it kind of relates to am I good enough? Because when we have perfectionism, I've been looking at that in myself, it's like, you know, my, my body isn't the same as it was when I was in my 20s. And I, in my 20s, I didn't think it was perfect either. But I'll tell you, it was a heck of a lot more perfect than it is now. And there's a part of me that really gets attached to that, which creates suffering. And I've been looking, and I've been looking at that, because why am I attached to that? What is the real story underneath that? And it's like, because I am not my body. I, you know, I'm not my thoughts. I'm not my emotions, but I do identify with them sometimes. And I forget that I'm not. And when I do that, it literally keeps me isolated. And I wanted to bring that into a way because I hear so many of my clients talking about, you know, well, when I have that fill in the blank, when I have enough money, enough time, enough love, then I will fill in your blank, right. And to me, that's almost like a perfectionism deficit. Because they'll never be enough in the way of that perfectionism. attitude. And so we're looking at, you know, with Maren, we were talking earlier about making a shift in that and what that would mean, and, you know, the advantages and disadvantages of having a perfectionistic outlook, and in-look on life.

Maren Oslac: 2:25

And in look, I like the end, look, you know, when you were talking and you said, you know, your body is not as quote unquote, perfect as it wasn't in your 20s. And yet, in your 20s, it wasn't good enough, was it? Never, exactly

Stephanie Allen: 2:38

it doesn't, it doesn't matter

Maren Oslac: 2:40

Right. You never got to actually enjoy the body that you had in your 20s. Because you were trying to have a different body. And so that's the thing about it, is like, we never get to actually be present, and enjoy what we have. And then we look back and we think, Oh my God, if I had just realized how good a shape I was in or how much I actually knew. I mean, like thinking about it from a leadership perspective. We're always doing that to ourselves. We need another certification. We need another this, we need another that, I'm not good enough yet. Nobody's gonna recognize me, because I don't recognize myself. Yeah. And I think we can all see that when we look back and we go, Oh, if I only realized at that point in time, well, guess what, you're at the next point in time, and you have an opportunity right now, to realize, here's what I would like for you to realize the word perfection was originally meaning the meaning behind it was originally that it was whole or complete. So say, for example, you bake a pie, and you're done. It's finished, it's complete. It's whole, it's perfect. It's not saying that it tastes good or tastes bad, or like all of the judgments that we put on things now. And when I look at it, and I think about the fact that if I can be present to the fact that I am a whole and complete person, right now, right this moment, I can enjoy it a lot more. It's not that I don't have aspirations.

Stephanie Allen: 4:26

It Yeah. And you know, our society is so attached to the different beliefs around perfectionism that, you know, it has to be this way or it has to be right or wrong or good or bad. And, you know, interesting, I was just working with my niece the other day, and she's 14 So really great age, right? Like, I don't want to be, You can't make me, I don't have to, all that kind of stuff and why bother? That's the 14 year old, you know, meh, whatever. That's the kind of attitude and yet at 14 You have so much lifeforce. You have so much freedom without any responsibility. Like, there's just there's like, it's a great time. And all, by the way, all, really all ages is a great time. But I think about how hard it is to be 14 as well. And we were talking about homework. And she was saying, well, basically, they can't ever fail you. I'm like, What do you mean, they can't fail you in school? What are you talking about? She was, you know, she wasn't doing her homework, she wasn't gonna do her homework, and no one could make her and that was the way it was. Or that she couldn't have it the way she wanted. It wasn't gonna be perfect. So why bother? And I'm like, wow, this is really, really interesting. And I said, Well, you know, how do you, what do you mean, you can't fail? Well, unless mom and dad agree to hold me back, they'd have to have written permission to, you know, give a written permission to school. I can't fail. And it's already, when you think about that. Whatever doesn't matter, like there was zero motivation for her to even try. Because it was almost like, Well, why bother? I can't be perfect. I can't be good enough. And you can't fail me anyway. So I don't know what to do with my energy. I'm just beside myself, right. And I was just reflecting that in my life, because I grew up in a different age of where it was the opposite. So I think this is what happens in our, in our society, right? We polarize, I grew up in a background of gymnastics where when I competed, you're highly highly judged, like, I'm telling you, if you had a hair at a place or your underwear was showing, or, you know, the, the bodysuit went up the crack of your butt, that was it, there was marks taken off, like, I mean, you had to be perfect. In order to even you had to fit an image and you had to be perfect. And the whole time of media companies, right, the perfect 10. And it's swung the other way now. So it's like, what is the, and I don't want to say balance, I almost want to say harmony, because I because to me, balance is meeting in the middle. But harmonizing is going up to another level where both are included. And it creates both a both/and

Maren Oslac: 7:03

I like that because it was it was interesting, because I run a networking meeting. And this morning, we talked about perfection, which is kind of why it was it was up for me. And one of the questions I asked at the meeting was how has it served you how has perfectionism served you in your life? And one of the women said that she hadn't given it much thought, you know, besides the judgment that we make around it, until this moment, and then she thought, You know what, as long as I'm aware of it running, meaning perfectionism that that little beast that runs inside of us, then she can use it to to serve her, you know, because I asked how it served in your life, right? And earlier, when you and I were talking you had mentioned like, what's the lower vibration of it? And what's the upper vibration of it? So that it's not all it's not 100% good or one 100% bad. It's, it's, it's bringing our awareness to where does it fit in our lives? And does it serve us? And when it serves us as a motivator, like with your nice, right, if it can motivate us great. And if it's, if it's a stick, oh, I just saw this recently, I posted it on Facebook, I think of like, it's a great carrot. It's a terrible stick, right? Like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna beat myself up with this perfectionism thing, whereas it can draw us towards this beauty and this enlightenment and this next step for ourselves, and we tend to use it the other way of, I'm not good enough, I have to do it better. I'm just gonna give up because there's no sense in you know,

Stephanie Allen: 8:58

well, and I feel that like, you know, if you're in that state of like, whatever, or why bother, or Screw you, or any any kind of emotional torque that you have, I would say that's probably a part of you that that's acting out as a 14 year old. Really, you know, are you 14? No, okay, well, then don't be 14. In that way, it's like talk to you that 14 year old because often that's the part that's holding on to some really great energy, some really great passion and some lifeforce and some possibilities and to be able to set that part of us free to really integrate it to bring it up into out not by shaming it or punishing it, but it's like really not letting it run you. I had a conversation with someone today and said what if you called it a prototype? And that's really what what Maren and I have been doing with with our podcast is it's a prototype meaning it's not meant to be perfect. In fact, we we let that go. We're gonna, We're presencing what we need to learn to be able to to evolve and be better and, but not as a place that we're attached to. If it is it, you know, if it gets so many followers or it doesn't, then we're a success or a failure, we're like, we're letting all of that go, mainly as a prototype, not only for ourselves, but also for what we stand for and helping others in developing a new operating system and how we serve ourselves in the world, is that we're being asked to come to a new level, a new level of infrastructure from the inside out, instead of looking at the outer results, and the outer manifestation only, because that's important, but what are the internal structures that have to be in place in order to support it, in order to support it through the ups and downs of life in order to feed it to nourish it? Because I use the analogy of the house, if you have a beautiful house on the outside, you've painted it, and you you know, it looks wonderful, great gardens, but you never turn the heat on inside, or the air conditioning on in the in the summertime, like, it's going to have some internal problems, and that you can't, and you can't live in it, and it's going to show up on the outer, you know, the paint is going to peel the windows are going to crack or, you know, there's going to be different things that happen mold builds, it's meant to breathe, and it's meant to be dynamic, but that, the quality of the internal always shows up on the external. And the extra, the quality of the external doesn't always mean that that's what's going on in the internal, we've always seen that, we even use that say, you know, beauty is only skin deep. You know, it's like, a person might be absolutely gorgeous on the outside. But who knows what's going on internally. And that's not a judgment, that's just a curiosity. Because some people are amazingly beautiful on the inside, as beautiful as they are on the outside. Right. And others are just literally skin deep. There's nothing deep about that person. Like they're empty, and lonely and hurting. We don't know. I mean, this is why mental illness is so important that we start addressing it now. Because what I mean, mental illness has been there for centuries, really. But now we've become so evolved in the perfectionism, of being able to diagnose and have wonderful technology to be able to see what's going on or what's working or what's not working in the body. It's fabulous. But we're not adept at really going deeper than just the physical. And I don't mean in the visceral of this of the human body I'm talking about in the psychology of it and in the emotionality of it in the soulfulness of it, there's so much more going on, that plays out on the body. And this is this is true in our relationships, in our businesses in every area of our life.

Maren Oslac: 12:45

What I see is that when we come from that lower vibration of using perfectionism as a as a stick to beat ourselves up, it's so constricting, it stops us, it's a you know, it's like, I think of that, you know, when I start something new in my life, or if I, you know, got a new job, or I'm even trying for a new job, or I have a new project, you know, it's like, there's that it constricts it pulls everything in, whenever I feel like so imagine that as, as our listeners Imagine yourself starting something new, and there's immediately there's this like, Oh, I wonder if I'll be good enough. That perfection piece, right? So we tend to pull back from things. Whereas as kids, we didn't care. Somebody said, Hey, try this. And you're like, Okay, make a mud pie. Okay, do this, right. It's like, yeah,

Stephanie Allen: 13:42

the curiosity and wonder was so there. And that is really, I want to kind of bring this into the lower vibration, upper vibration, for those who might be thinking that that sounds a little woowoo. To them, I want to bring it into a science thing, think of an ice cube, an ice cube has a slower vibrational energy, which actually makes it solid, it's like concrete, it's solid. And in order to change the state of that ice cube, you have to turn up the heat. So all you women out there who having hot flashes, you're turning up, you're raising your vibration, I'm just saying it's a new way of looking at it, I'm gonna I'm gonna own that myself. It's like you're raising your vibration, you're you're cooking, you're you're increasing the molecules, the vibration and the speed of the molecule, which is actually changing the state in the form. And so what we're saying of a lower vibration of a thought of perfectionism, where we get concrete, this is the way it is, it has to be perfect. It's either right or wrong, good or bad. You know, when we get really binary around it, that's concrete. That's like the ice cube. That's the lower vibration of it, versus the higher vibration of it of like, allowing it to be more fluid like water or steam.

Maren Oslac: 14:50

I love this analogy because water flows and we're all looking for more flow in our lives. And here's a direct To path to more flow in your life, I'm very clear like, Okay, if I can let go of the perfectionist and the lower vibration, lower vibration of that, right of the part that's telling me I'm not good enough, so don't even bother and hold the higher vibration of it, which means complete and whole. And hey, you know what, it might take me 12 iterations, or maybe 2000 iterations to get there. And I'm going to start because I'm not perfect, and that's okay, that's I'm not meant to be

Stephanie Allen: 15:33

It's also expressing the value that you want to evolve, and that you are growing and evolving, and you respect beauty. And, you know, it's like the elegance definition of like, you know, if you think of fashion design, it's like, when you look at something that is, you know, haute couture, it's so gorgeous, so gorgeous. And yet it's often very simple, but extremely complex. And so the definition of, of elegance in that way is there's nothing to add, and there's nothing to take away. Right? It's actually whole, so it's perfect. But there was, like you said many, many, many, many iterations to be able to go through to get to that finalized product. And that's what we are doing in the way of evolution. It's not like it's a once and done I'm so tired of this like, Well, I tried that once, but it didn't work. Like you tried it once. Well, I tried too, I tried to five times, like from the same perspective, I'm sure. Dammit, this square block is going to fit into that round hole. Okay, I'm going to take a hammer, I'm going to hammer it in there. And it's like, well, wait a minute, like, you know, did you try different iterations, I need to try different perspective, a different approach, did you ask for help? All these different things that the lower concrete, Ice Cube style of perfectionism is not having any space whatsoever, for being willing to get input or be curious or to flow, or any of those things versus allowing it to be more fluid, and open, which by the way, when when, like when things are fluid, you have no pain, if you are in pain, and I don't just mean physical pain, but that is also true too. If blood and energy is not moving in your body, you are going to have a physical pain. But if it's flowing freely, like a river, it's clean, it's clear, it's it's, it's beautiful. And who doesn't want more of that? more flow.

Maren Oslac: 17:30

And we can picture that in a river, right? So the areas of the river that aren't flowing, they get stagnant, they start to get stinky, they you know, and it serves its purpose, don't get me wrong, just like it does inside of us. It serves its purpose. And usually its purpose is to uplevel and evolve the area so that it can either grow something new, or do something different or start to flow. So it will in nature, when those areas stagnate, something will come along, say for example, an algae and start to move that energy to a higher level. What we do in ourselves is we actually keep it stagnant. So we're not like choosing to change that energy is, it does have to be, it has to come from an awareness, it has to be a conscious choice of like, Oh, I see that I'm being stagnant there, or I'm being concrete, I'm being the ice cube in that instance, because I've constricted my energy and I'm in fear. And when I'm constricted and in fear, I have no space for new ideas, I have no space for creativity, perfection is at a lower vibrational energy is actually so it is the killer of creativity. And so we can't move to another place because all of our creativity is is frozen in the block of ice. It really is. And then when we bring attention to it, that's that's bringing the higher vibration of energy to it. We bring attention to it without judgment. without judgment, then we start to, that's where it starts to melt, we start to go into flow. And then we there's space for creativity. There's space for other ideas. There's space for curiosity, there's space for other people to help, you know, because we've stopped judging.

Stephanie Allen: 19:28

So I'm curious Maren, when you get into perfectionism within yourself two questions here, what is the, how do you know? Like, what, what are your indicators that you are, Oops, I am getting into that perfectionism role within myself? And then what do you do as a practice to transform it?

Maren Oslac: 19:55

Oh, those are great questions. I think the answer to the first How do I know is when I'm in fear. So Einstein has a great quote. And he said, the most important decision that any person can make is whether they live in a friendly universe or not, whether they live in a friendly one, or one that is judging. right? One is that a hard, horrible universe, and I am at the point in my life where I would say about 90% of the time, I feel like I live in a friendly universe, which means I can trust, I can be imperfect, it's messy, it's lovely, it's beautiful. When I start to feel fear, and uncertainty, and like, Oh, my God, I'm going to be judged, and I can't do that. And I feel myself constricting, I literally feel myself constricting. And I realized that I'm in a place where I don't believe that that's true. If I lived in a friendly universe, it wouldn't matter. Because I would, I would make a mistake, I would not be perfect. And on the other side, there would be grace, and there would be learning and there would be somebody to help me. And so when I start to feel like those things are not true. And I'm constricting. I know that I'm in my, my perfectionism, you know, program, the lower vibration of it, I'm not in flow. I'm a concrete Ice Cube, like, I'm gonna be here and scared. And so what do I do? The first thing I have to do is acknowledge it. So I stop, and I just go, Oh, look at me. And this is, it's interesting, because you and I have this thing where we say we've got our stop, drop, right. So the next thing I do is I drop and for me, what dropping means is I drop in, I stop the outer, whatever the outer Chatter is, and I go inside, and I just drop in, and I, I'm present, not with judgment, not trying to dig around and root something up and be like, oh, you're the culprit. Or I just, I just stop. And I drop in. And I'm, I'm present. And sometimes I'm present to what I feel in my body. Because you mentioned it earlier, our bodies are huge indicators of what's going on the physical body will hold vibrations. For us, it holds our energy. So when there's a blockage in the body, it gives us a lot of information, there's a blockage somewhere in our energy. So sometimes it'll be an emotional thing. Sometimes it'll be a physical thing, I just am present to what's going on in my body. And then without judgment, I release it. And I go, what, I ask a question. What, what would happen, if I did X, Y, or Z, whatever the fear is, you know, if I went forward with the job interview, or if I talked to that person, that seems a little scary over there, or if I, you know, I told my, my boss that I have an idea, whatever it is that I'm starting to feel constricted about, I asked myself, what would be the worst possible outcome? The worst possible outcome. And then I always add the second one, what would be the best possible outcome, and I just breathe into each of those. And I, I connect back into, I live in a friendly universe, and I do trust that I'm totally taken care of. So even if I get the worst possible outcome, it's because that's for my highest interest. So that's my, my perfectionism process.

Stephanie Allen: 24:06

Thank you. You know, it's interesting, thank you. Because, you know, I think we all do a lot we all can find ourselves in each other. Let's put it that way. And to take a look inside and go yeah, how do I, I'm asking all of us out there listening, how, how do you how do I look at perfectionism? And what's my reaction to it? What happens? What do I do? And if I was to shift that to change that, what would be the most beautiful way to do that with curiosity and wonder, what would be a new iteration that you could prototype and try on to be able to transcend it to be able to move that perfection from an ice cube to a vapor? What What would that look like? What would that be like for you? Because all Ultimately, for me perfection, I know, for me, I isolate, I push away and I not only isolate isolate for myself, like I don't even honor myself. In fact, I end up doing the worst case scenarios of like, kind of like my 14 year old niece who says, why bother, whatever I will give up, or I don't want to You can't make me kind of stuff. And then next thing, you know, I'm wanting to change my my body into something more perfect. And I'm eating chocolate bar and, and cheese in abundance. This is really not helping. I'm totally. And so my process is really looking at which part of me, I like to look at parts, which part of me is acting up and acting out right now? And what is that part really needing from a loving universe, which I provide it for. So it might say, you know, I'm just really bored. And I just want to rest and relax. And all you want to do I mean, that part talking to me, all you want to do is push me harder. And so I'm rebelling back. So I'm like, Oh, I'm talking to my 14 year old. How you doing? Okay, gotcha. And I'm gonna give her a name. I find when you name it, like, you know, silly Sally or something like that. And, like, I literally give it a name. And I do this with my clients, I say name it, give, give that part a name, you know, male, female, doesn't matter. Just give it a name. It could be could be a cartoon character doesn't matter. But then all of a sudden, it's not you. It's, it's a character within you. That then it's not about punishing it. It's not about doing any of those things, it's getting to know it, you're actually starting to develop intimacy inside yourself. And curiosity and wonder of like, this, this little gremlin part that's acting up and acting out, or creating some sort of havoc in your life is actually needing some love, and needing to be heard or seen or recognized. And it probably also has a gift for you too. And then so how do you collaborate with it? without punishing it?

Maren Oslac: 27:08

I think

Stephanie Allen: 27:09

and without and without letting it run wild either, eating all the chocolate and the in the cheese, which are my two big nemesis.

Maren Oslac: 27:16

And it's I like that giving it parts and, and breaking ourselves up instead of like, the full identity of this is who I am. Yeah, well, it's just part of me that's experiencing this. Because when we say if, for example, it was your best friend that was being perfect, a perfectionist, Yeah, you would know what to say to your best friend, you'd be like, Oh, that's ridiculous. You know, like, you do that beautifully. Or it's the first time you've ever tried it, why would you? like you would you

Stephanie Allen: 27:49

be so kind. And caring

Maren Oslac: 27:51

Yeah,

Stephanie Allen: 27:51

but we don't for ourselves And not only powerful, important, because

Maren Oslac: 27:52

and understanding. So when you can break it up into parts, now all of a sudden, there's a part of you, that can unconsciously, if you, if we don't go in and make peace with be the adult in the room. And a part of you that can be the the whiny child or whatever part that is that's in rebellion, or those parts within ourselves, we will unconsciously project our that's saying I can't or, and you can have a conversation with them. That's very powerful. perfectionism out onto all those that we love and care about. And we actually will push them away. And it's like, that's when we don't really see the people who are in front of us, we see them as we are rather than the how they are. So what we're doing is casting our our image of them good, bad or indifferent doesn't matter. Instead of really seeing and hearing what they're actually saying in meeting and being. So what it does is that yeah, it gives our own power back and creates a lot more joy and inspiration for ourselves. And it also then fosters a role modeling and an intimacy for those that are around you. And as I mean, we are the soulful leader podcast. This is the key for leaders. You know, when when we want to lead from a place of wholeness, perfection, if you will, that we have to bring all those parts of ourselves back in to be whole and own them so that we're not projecting on to the people around us whether we're leading a family or you know, a team of two in a small business or a team of 1000 or 100 in a large business. When we project onto those people is not fair to them. It's also not fair to us. That's Huge. So this is the key to leadership is really recognizing that there are different vibrations of perfection. And when you're in the lower vibration, what can you do to shift that? Yeah.

Stephanie Allen: 30:20

This has been great.

Maren Oslac: 30:21

This has been. Thank you guys so much for joining us today for this conversation. We would love to hear your thoughts on perfectionism and where it where it fits in your life, how has it served you? How is it, you know, not served you

Stephanie Allen: 30:38

and has it stopped you?

Maren Oslac: 30:40

Right? Right. What issues has it brought up for you? You can do that on our Facebook page or in on our LinkedIn group. And both of those are the soulful leaders. And don't forget that we do have our 12 Days of Creation coming up is going to be very powerful. If you'd like more information on that you can find that at TSLP. That stands for, the soulful leader Project dot life so TSLP.life. And you'll find us right here next week on the soulful leader podcast.

Stephanie Allen: 31:25

And that wraps up another episode of the soulful leader podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen

Maren Oslac: 31:32

and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website at the soulful leader podcast.com.

Stephanie Allen: 31:42

Until next time,