Neurodiversity is Your Superpower with Vicki Keith

Vicki Keith is one of the most successful marathon swimmers in the history of the sport. She holds an unprecedented 16 world records, many of which surpassed both the male and female mark - including her record for swimming the 93 km double crossing of Lake Ontario in 1987, being the first person to swim across all five Great Lakes in 1988 and the distance world record for open water butterfly at 80.2 km.

While her swim career is both impressive and inspiring, her own internal, personal work and what she brings to the world of leadership and coaching takes all of it to another level.  Vicki was diagnosed later in life with ADHD which was simply another piece in her life puzzle. It helped explain her brain  - but the way she accomplished and lived her life came from an early decision to use the unusual way her brain worked to her advantage - no diagnosis required.

Her pursuit of excellence combined with her fiery desire to change the status quo and help people make her an exceptional role model. Everything from her inner dialog, to her lifetime of volunteer work, the to program she created for coaching physically impaired athletes, to the impactful talks she gives points to her service to humanity. Vicki is a unique human and everyone should have an opportunity to learn from her. It was a joy and honor to speak with her.

Vicki is a member of the Order of Canada, in recognition of her outstanding achievements and service, and was presented with an honourary Doctorate from Queen’s University in acknowledgement for her leadership in transformational coaching development. In 2007 Vicki was inducted into the International Swimming Hall of Fame. This honour was followed by her induction into the Canada Sports Hall of Fame in 2019, and in February 2023, the Canada Games Hall of Honour, for sporting excellence and leadership in developing para swimming in Canada. In 1998 Vicki’s most famous arrival and departure point was renamed after her. The headlands of the Leslie Street Spit in Toronto are officially named Vicki Keith Point.

• 03:49 going from lost to 2 world records
• 06:51 failure
• 08:37 ADHA - decisions and changing tasks
• 10:38 Decision Making - Minor irritation or Major disaster
• 14:46 A variation on goal setting & values
• 22:00 The voice in our heads
• 24:43 Procrastination is really percolation
• 28:35 Personal mission statement and forgiveness
• 33:42 Coaching as a journey, working with physical disabilities
• 39:55 A circle makes it all possible
• 42:00 The higher sorry of different

You can reach Vicki on Facebook and WordPress by searching: Vicki Keith - Beside The Boat

TRANSCRIPT

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26:02 Ep 123: Procrastination: The Hidden Gem

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Transcript

Maren Oslac: 0:00

Welcome to the Soulful Leader Podcast. Stephanie and I just interviewed the most amazing woman, and we had to share a bit about it before you get into the meat and potatoes of the podcast. So her name is Vicki Keith, and she is an Order of Canada recipient. She is a marathon swimmer, and she's got, like 16 world records that most of which are gender neutral. So it doesn't matter. She beat the guy, she beat the girls, right? She was the first person to swim across all five great lakes. And that was back in 1988. I mean, she's just, she's absolutely phenomenal in her ability to focus and change the, things that she does the worlds in which she occupies.

Stephanie Allen: 1:01

I think what you're trying to say too, is that she's more than just the outer success. What motivates her, like more than the outer success, what motivates her is her why. Why she does what she does, and how she sees things differently, and literally transcends how we see or perceive things that would normally be a deficit, she turns them into a strength and just gives such inspiration and possibility for all of us and unites us all in a whole new world.

Maren Oslac: 1:36

I love that. You stated that really well. And as a quick example of that, as an adult, as you know, later in her career, she was diagnosed with ADHD as neurodivergent. And she doesn't look at that as a deficit, like you said. To her that's her strength. And it just is. She coaches para-athletes now and what a gift to our world she is.

Stephanie Allen: 2:07

So you're gonna love listening to this podcast because I just want more from Vicki. I want to talk to her. I haven't met her live and in person. I've just met her through this wonderful means of podcasting. But I'll tell you, I'm just... I'm so looking forward to developing a deeper relationship and friendship with this woman because she really, really ignites me.

Maren Oslac: 2:32

Enjoy and let us know what you think.

Stephanie Allen: 2:38

In a world where we have everything, and it's still not enough, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Maren Oslac: 2:45

Deep inside, you know, there's more to life. You're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper, more meaningful life that's calling you.

Stephanie Allen: 2:54

That is what we invite you to explore with us. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen

Maren Oslac: 2:59

and Maren Oslac. And this is the Soulful Leader Podcast. Welcome to the soulful leader podcast. My name

Stephanie Allen: 3:05

Yay! is Maren Oslac. And I'm here with Stephanie Allen and we have a special guest, Vicki Keith. So Vicki, as you heard in the intro is this amazing leader and Being. Vicki just I was wondering if you could tell us a little bit about how you got into swimming. And especially....you have such a unique story around not being a pool swimmer. But being an outdoor, you know, like a lake swimmer. Tell us a little bit about that.

Vicki Keith: 3:49

Well, as a young person, I wanted to participate in sport, it felt like a really important thing to me. I love to be physically active. But every time I tried something, it would fall through. I was kicked out of ballet by the time I was five. I was last picked for teams. And I just kept on searching for a place that I could do something. I wanted to do something important. I didn't know what that was going to be. I finally found a sport that was perfect for me. And that was judo. It throw someone down on the ground, you hold them down, they give up and you win. And I love that but I also wasn't sure it was everything that I was looking for. And I kept on searching and found competitive swimming and loved it. But when I watched the Olympics, I realized that I didn't have what it took to be an Olympic swimmer. And I almost gave up at that point. And then one night, in the middle of the night I sat up with the start. And I had words running through my head and I think what happened was my brain took two sports I enjoyed I loved swimming, I loved long distance running. And my brain put those two together the middle of the night and I woke up going... long distance swimming. And I pulled my Guinness Book of World Records off the shelf, I swiped past the competitive swimming. There was all these open water swimming records. And I read over them over and over and over again all night long. And I got up the next day, and I went to school, and I told my friends that someday I was going to be a great open water swimmer. And a number of years passed, and I still haden't taken the action, I had no idea how to even start. And somebody came up to me and I was telling the story says, Vicki, I've heard this enough times, it's time for you to shut up and do it. And I said, Okay, next summer, and he said, Nope, get in the water, get busy and do it. And I'd been training all that time, I just didn't know where to go with it. And so within a few months, I had set two world records. I swan 112 miles butterfly along the shoreline in Kingston, Ontario. And I'd swum 100 hours continuously in a pool. And that gave me confidence and knowledge in two different areas. That helped me head off on to my open water swimming career.

Stephanie Allen: 6:07

And this is butterfly you're saying to so it's like....

Vicki Keith: 6:09

That was the the 12 Miles was butterflies, the 100 hours was any stroke I felt like doing. Mostly freestyle. But you know, when I was hallucinating, due to lack of sleep, I was doing head up breastroke. And sort of talking to my crew members trying to stay focused and understanding where I was. That's when I actually increased it to 129 hours and 45 minutes before I fell asleep. That was sort of the end of that was, I had fallen asleep, they were not able to wake me up and therefore the swim had to end. And it was the first time that I faced what I perceived as failure. And I went home to my parents place that night went to bed. And I lay in bed all night long kicking my feet, because I couldn't understand this one was over. And in the morning, I lay in bed trying to figure out how to manage everything that I just experienced, because I had just failed. And I lay there until I realized that I hadn't failed. I had done my absolute very best. I'd broken the world record. And I had stayed awake for 129 hours and 45 minutes. But understanding that I'd done my best was the moment when I realized that that's all I could ever ask of myself.

Stephanie Allen: 7:40

It's so interesting. That's amazing. First of all, I can't even imagine staying awake that long. That would be a world record for Stephanie. But it's like, I can't even imagine and then swimming and then having that internal, that internal capacity that you wanted to do something you wanted to make a difference. You wanted to create something... because I think your why is so much deeper than the goal setting aspect. And though you were still kind of caught in that, paradigm in our culture that says, Oh, you failed because you didn't complete. Instead of having that epiphany that you woke up and said, No, I did. Like you know what you did, and how it changed. You know, tell me more about like, the pressures both internally and externally that you go through in the world, like... I'm so excited to talk to you. (laughter)

Vicki Keith: 8:37

What I've learned recently is I have ADHD, I think we knew it all along, but women present differently than men. And therefore it wasn't a diagnosis that was going to happen. So that means for me, things like changing tasks, and making decisions are very difficult. And so I think what happened was I took some of the things that I struggled with and found solutions to it. So making decisions, I decided no matter

Maren Oslac: 9:02

I know one of the things that you and I have what.. it was going to work out, everything was fine. And when I could look at things from only one perspective, a positive perspective, I had gotten rid of half of the decisions I had to make. And for me then I could see everything positive. And I had solutions on a scale that I could manage. And but my my decision making had been cut down. I depend on my intuition, as opposed to a decision making process. So decision making process if there's more than two steps, my brain has forgotten the first one by the time I get to the third one. So if I can just use my intuition..what is right.. and that's usually the strongest one for me is what is right then I'm able to move in a path and I think that over everything else has helped me figure out where I want to go and and as I continued my swimming career, I tied in other things that were important like raising funds for programs for kids with disabilities. But talked about in the past is how it relates to your decision every single time it just came down to what is right. And for me, that was way easier than having a process of decision making. making of, you know, when you're swimming? How do you know when you need to stop or not stop? And I love your, your kind of your very clear decision making process in that instance.

Vicki Keith: 10:38

Yeah so as a rule, I go in assuming I'm going to be successful. And I'll never forget the interview my mother did. And they said, do you think she can do it? And my mother said, Well, she thinks she can. And originally, I was hurt by that because it meant she didn't believe in me. But then as I thought it through, I understood what she was saying is, she didn't have the ability to believe in something that huge, but she believed that I could do it because I had that ability to see the bigger picture. But then as I went through the process and looking at swims, and sometimes you're facing a challenge that you just can't imagine overcoming. I remember swimming in Lake Michigan and having bite bugs bite my back continually all night long. And people say, but how can you stay there? Why would you stay there? The Catalina channel, I had a shark swim underneath me twice close enough that I could have touched it. But why do you stay in there? What, what, what keeps you there? And I didn't really know the answer. I hadn't clarified it in my own brain at that point. But as I thought about their questions, I realized that I had categorize things in one of two ways. Everything I faced was either a goal stopping disaster, or a minor irritation. And again, this goes back to my ADHD and not being able to make those decisions quickly. And so I would look at something and I'd say, well, a shark just swam underneath me. But now it's gone. So is that a goal stopping disaster or is a minor irritation? Well, now that it's gone, it's just a minor irritation. Having jellyfish things all over me in English Channel. Goal stopping disaster? No, I'm not willing to let that interfere with me achieving my goal. A minor irritation, yes. And not only that, they hurt so badly that it kept me awake for the rest of the swim. And so I was able to complete the swim. So in 23 and a half hours, I swam butterfly across the English Channel and became the first person to do so.

Maren Oslac: 12:47

That's amazing. I, absolutely love that. Because so often, we have these, like petty tyrants in our head. And they tell us Oh, I can't do that. Oh, oh, that's a little too tough. You got to stop now. And, you know, a lot of times, it is important and or it's, you use the word, minor disaster. And I am not sure that I would consider a, you know, Jelly stings all over my body or a shark swimming under me a minor disaster, I might call it a major disaster. And those are the things that like, if you don't have that very clear distinction, it's either this or it's that.. there is no middle ground of, well, maybe it's important. It's either hell of important, me or my career is in danger. Or it's not, in which case I'm going to deal with it.

Vicki Keith: 13:46

Yeah. And Jelly fish stings are dangerous, they

Stephanie Allen: 13:53

Well, know it's kind of that saying, you know, is it fear? Fear and danger are not the same thing. You know, danger is real fear is optional. And that's what I kind of hear you saying. It's like, you know, is it a major irritation, or a major disaster. Which one is it? It's like, is it fear? Or is it is a danger? And if it's fear, okay, this too shall pass. I'll just work through this, or is it a major thing that is going to, you know, injure me or injure the crew or that, then okay, that's dangerous, I need to stop. And I just think, imagine if we did that, and I also love that you only focus on Yes, of just hurt.

Maren Oslac: 14:30

They hurt. course, I'm going to be successful why wouldn't I be?

Vicki Keith: 14:32

Yeah. Well, some jellyfish stings are but... I'm just going to focus on being successful. Like there was no other room for doubt or fear, or like, I mean.... I think it's simpler in a situation where all focus is in one direction. And when we're in an environment

Stephanie Allen: 14:46

Well, I think what you're alluding to is the like LIFE where we're doing so many things, things get blurred. And I think if we can just think of that one situation, and understand that that's that one situation isn't impossible, we can manage that. The challenge is that we're doing 12 other things at the same time. And in this world, that is what we're doing. So if we can rearrange, readjust, prioritize, and then choose the things that you are absolutely not going to let slide and the things that it's okay to let slide. I mean, you can't let family slide. Family is important, right? If you've got a goal, that's, that's really important to you, it is also important to your family, because you are showing your family what's possible. And if you have children, you showing them that you matter. And so often we don't take care of ourselves, self care doesn't come into our vocabulary. It's the last thing on that list of what we should be doing. And when we're working towards the goal, at least for showing our young people and the people in our in our circle, that we are worth it. Now, if we can add some self care, and there would be even better but that's another whole conversation, I think, values. I think most people don't know their values, and having the clarity about what you value. And, you know, being able to honor those values while you're moving towards a goal.

Vicki Keith: 16:22

Yeah, and when I'm teaching goal setting, the first thing I do is have the young people that I'm working with, identify what their values are. And I present them with a list of a whole bunch of values, because sometimes it's really hard just to figure out where to start. And some kids know that their value isn't in there, and they add it to wherever they want. But so they end up with like 20 values, they go... cut it down to 10, cut it down to five, you got to have six, okay, you can have six, you can only find four that work for you, then that's fine. But once you've got your values, every single goal you choose, you have to identify which values you are focused on to achieve that goal. Because if it's not value based, it's not going to be important enough to you to follow through. And that's okay if you if you're working on a goal and it doesn't, at some point fit your values anymore, because our values will change over time. COVID, our values changed, our understanding of our world changed, right? So it's if all of a sudden something changes, and this doesn't fit your values any more than that's a goal that isn't necessary. So don't just keep on fighting on it because it was a goal. You don't need to achieve every goal, you have to find the ones that are really important to you, the value based ones, and move in that direction and help others do the same.

Maren Oslac: 17:40

I love that. Because then so often I see people who say they have values. They haven't identified them, so they don't actually know what they are. They haven't articulated them that clearly. And then they're doing things that are not in alignment with those values. So they're not living the life, they think they're living the life that's aligned with their values, and if they took the time to actually articulate those values, they'd go, oh, oh, yeah, maybe not. Right? So I love that you're doing that with young people, and helping them to identify that and then live a life congruent with your values. So well said because, yeah, but like we tend

Vicki Keith: 18:23

I think what you said is really important. And what comes to mind is families who put a child in sport, and they put their child into sport based on their values, right? Which might be friendship, it might be, it might be success, it might be work ethic, it could be anything, but they're sitting to make the goal that's what everything's about instead of in the stands, watching a competition. And they hear"win", somebody else say win, and all of a sudden, all of that goes out the window, and they're thinking, oh, yeah, we've got to win. And when you go back and you say, but was that what our goal was or what we were working towards? And they'll go, No, but there's certain words that just capture us. And then we think that's the most important thing. But is winning the most realizing that a goal is literally just a path. It's, important thing? Or is or is this is this working towards something, and the process of it the most important thing? Like achieving a goal isn't necessarily what we're working towards. It's the process to help us find our next path. it's something that we can work towards so that we can become the person who does that goal. So it's a it's a path to us changing.

Stephanie Allen: 19:45

Yeah, yeah. And really like the success is really staying true to your values, knowing your values, and staying true to those. So it's the internal. The successes is internal, whereas the goal the reaching is the external.

Vicki Keith: 20:00

Yeah, and I mean, we speak to kids about this all the time. It's process goals versus outcome goals. It's important that you know where you're trying to go. But the steps that you're taking towards it is what really matters. And then breaking those goals down into smaller and smaller steps until you have something that's achievable. And most people have heard of SMART goals... Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Realistic and Time. Like it's a great theory. But it if your goal doesn't match all of those criteria, it doesn't mean it's an unworthy goal. It means you're not quite there yet. But if you call it a dream, it's too far away. And it doesn't feel real. So, you take your goal, and you break it down into macro goals, so steps towards that. And then you break it down into micro goals. And I think about, for instance, when I was swimming across Lake Huron, I had swim all day, all night, all day, and I was into the second night, and I'm swimming along and my arms got stuck over my head. And I'm lying in Lake in Lake Huron going crap, what do I do now? And I turned and I looked at my right arm, I said, right arm, you just have to go around once. And it went around once and I said, left arm, you just have to, I spent the next hour and a half talking to my arms. But one stroke at a time. I got close enough to shore that when I looked up, I could see people standing there, I could see a fire truck with its lights flashing, I could hear their voices calling out to me. And I started to swim faster. I actually spent the last half mile butterfly, I was feeling so good and so energized. And so what was happening then is my muscles hadn't given up my body hadn't given up. My brain just couldn't fathom what I had still ahead of me when I was that exhausted. And by breaking it down to the smallest infinitesimal step that I could imagine, I was able to get myself through the next hour. And all I thought about was the one stroke one stroke, I didn't let the voice in my head going,"this is ridiculous. You're never going to get there anyway, just stop now." Because we all have those voices. Right? We have them, I'm telling you. And it's, there's been times where I have sung, and no one wants to hear me sing, but sung so loudly underwater to drown out the voices. I remember one swim, I was so frustrated, the voices were so loud, I was singing so loud. And I finally lifted my head out of the water. And I said, you know, it's really weird. I'm swimming in freshwater. But my goggles are filled with saltwater. And my crew member, one of them started to worry that I was hallucinating. Somebody else thought I was like, they thought all these things. And somebody said, no, just think about it for a minute. I was so frustrated that I was crying and my goggles were filling up with saltwater. But there was something inside of me that understood that if I kept on pushing through it. And so I broke it down and broke it down and broke it down until the steps were small enough that I was I could see that I was making progress. And then I had to turn around and swim all the way back! (laughter) That was a 56 hour 10 minute swim.

Maren Oslac: 23:16

That's phenomenal. And you know, when when you put things into perspective like that, and you're thinking, Oh, can I can I make myself not eat that cupcake? Oh yeah, and if your goal is to lose weight, which a lot of people do, or your goal is to, you know, meet somebody new and you try to get out to the bar. So that are you know, get on some sort of a an app or if your goal is to make six figures or whatever it is, and and you put it in perspective of like, oh, yeah, those are, like we said earlier, minor irritations, the little things that get in the way. They're just minor irritations they're not, you know, okay, we need to stop something's in danger.

Vicki Keith: 24:05

And the goal is not perfection. Right? Like, if our goal, and I'm going to use your example is to lose weight, and there's a cupcake there. Eating the cupcake doesn't make us a failure. Right? There is nothing there that makes us a failure. Everybody who sees their favorite treat in front of them is going to want to eat it. Right? So if you tell yourself you can't have it, then you just start craving it more and at some point you're going to eat the 12 cupcakes that are sitting there. So it's have one. Enjoy it, cut into small pieces, savor it and know that that was your treat, and then move forward and it's not a failure if we eat a cupcake, if we if we don't get a personal best time, if we don't win, if you know if we finished the day and didn't achieve everything on our to do list. None of those things make us a failure. I've got a to do list and some of the things have been on there for months now because I'm procrastinating about doing them because I don't know how to start. But I will get them done at some point because some of my other goals will lead me to a step that helps me realize that I can do that now's the time and start moving forward. So it's okay to have like to have different to do lists. These have to be done today, these have to be done sometime this week and that one there really has to be done, but I'm not ready to start it yet. And often, what I'll do is, is if I give it long enough, procrastinate long enough, I always think about procrastination as percolation. Because often when I procrastinate, things start moving in my brain. And if I give it enough time, it all sorts out in my brain, and it percolates into a solution.

Stephanie Allen: 25:50

I like that. That's a great way to looking at it.

Vicki Keith: 25:53

Yeah! People are going...what's percolate?(laughter) We don't have a percolator. Right? We can remember the coffee pot..

Stephanie Allen: 25:59

...with the percolation. Yeah!

Maren Oslac: 26:02

We had a podcast that we did a while back on that. Procrastination is not what we think that it is. And so often it's, it's actually inner guidance. Yes, telling us is not quite the right time. There's something else coming. And it's exactly what you were just referring to of like, there's a higher part of us that knows that it's not right timing, there are some other chunks that need to come in some things that need to align. And when it's right timing, I mean, yes, there is sometimes is like, absolute, outright procrastination. And a lot of times, it's our inner guidance telling us, no, put that off a little bit. It's not quite ready yet.

Vicki Keith: 26:43

Yeah, it may not be time, you may not have the skills yet. But if you know that it's coming, then, and you keep it on that to do list, you can say, you know, I can't do that today. But this step here will help me get a little bit closer. So it's, it's okay to have it sitting there for a long time. But if that goal is there, and you write you write something each week, that might be working towards it in some way. And it doesn't have to be directly related. I mean, if your goal is to swim across the lake, and that week, your goal is to swim 10 strokes, you're still working in that process, right? Or if maybe it's not even swim related. Maybe it's, it's doing some nutritional education so that you can figure out what you need to do nutritionally instead of doing what everybody else tells you to do. Because that's something I've learned is nutritionally we all need something different. And I watch open water swimmers who feed every 15 minutes, because they

Stephanie Allen: 27:43

I think that's what you said about intuition need that nutrition continually in. Well my first open water swim, eight hours in I had barley sugar and a can of apple juice and then finished off the swim another four hours. I didn't know what the rules were, we couldn't just Google it. And so I didn't want to stop at all. And I realized eight hours in I probably needed something. But as a rule, my nutritional plan was every eat every two hours. And then as I moved into the second day, every hour and a half, and then every hour, right, but it's it's it's figuring out, what do you need? And what can you do towards that? It's not, it's listening to advice. Right? But it's not necessarily following it. It's thinking about it, and considering it and knowing to follow your own heart. about really knowing yourself, it's so important. You know, to know how your brain works or doesn't work and know that, you know, the doubts that are going to come up and how to handle them. And the more you can do that self awareness and self discovery, it can actually become your personal trainer. Which I think is what what I hear you saying is that the procrastination or the doubt actually helped you even focus more. Because I think what I also hear is that there was more of a WHY you're doing something than just Okay, I just want to, you know, get in the Guinness Book World Records. There was a deeper call in your heart and I know you have a personal mission statement, which I'd love to hear more about too. Tell us more about why you even have a mission statement, and what it

Vicki Keith: 29:28

So I want to start with, it's really important, all those things you said, but we need to add one more piece in there and that's forgiveness. Forgiving ourselves accepting that it's okay to make mistakes. And that's the hardest thing for me. I am horrified every time I make a mistake. I don't know myself pretty well. I'm just starting on that journey and I'm is and how it's evolved. 63 years old. Right? So it's all of that and and understanding that we can learn about ourselves. But those things are going to change over time. We're not who we were when we were teenagers, right? There's parts of us that. Right? So, but you were talking about my mission statement. And I started out a number of years ago trying to figure out how do I tell people what's important to me. And it became tied into my values. And it was, people were asking me questions, and I was trying to answer them all, and have it make sense. And so it came down to what are the values? What are the things that I want to live my life. And at that point, I had just completed the five great lakes. And so I thought, let's find five. And it was dream, believe, laugh, achieve and inspire. That's what I wanted to be able to do and to teach people is, is have a dream, believe that there's something that you're able to do. Believe that it's possible, work towards achieving it. Have fun in the whole process. And then once you've achieved all that you are working towards, inspire others to achieve the same. And so this was sort of the message I was sharing and

Stephanie Allen: 31:10

I think and even with yourself, right? Slow what I was trying to live my life by, and then COVID hit, and everything started to change. Directly before COVID hit, my husband was diagnosed with a devastating illness. And my whole life changed in a moment. And I was trying to figure out how do I live this way? What do I do? And finally it was, I need to readdress, I need to relook at what I'm doing. And it was changing my slogan to slow down, be patient, be kind. And that down, be kind, be patient. That, you know, we can't often give was what I started to live by. And I understood it was what my husband needed at that time. And it was what everybody in our something to someone else if we haven't been practicing it with community needed at that time, they needed somebody to slow ourselves. And we're often the hardest ones to practice it down to be kind to them to be patient with them, they needed to see a smile, or hear a friendly voice. And so through a COVID I lived by slow down, be patient, be kind. And then as everything changed again, and I lost my husband, I had to go through the whole grieving process. And in the end, I decided that what I was going to do is hold on to dream, believe laugh, achieve and inspire. But keep the slow down, be patient be kind, is part of who I am. So that no matter what, as I move forward that I maintain those, because I think that's really what people need in our outside world, instead of judging somebody instead of getting frustrated with them. And I'm not saying I don't get frustrated with people sometimes. But if I can just if I can slow down, if I can just give have a little bit of patience, and be kind to them. Their life is going to be easier. And all of our live will be easier. with.

Vicki Keith: 33:13

Yes, yeah.

Stephanie Allen: 33:14

Thank you for sharing that.

Vicki Keith: 33:15

To find to be patient with ourselves. Right? I'm far better at doing it for other people. Every time I make a mistake. And oftentimes it doesn't even matter. Right? But we are so hard on ourselves. So we just need to take that information inside as well. And I think that's a really good point, Stephanie.

Maren Oslac: 33:34

That goes along with the forgiveness that you were just speaking about.

Vicki Keith: 33:38

Absolutely.

Maren Oslac: 33:42

So I know, your personal swimming career of open water swimming, I think that you may be done with that. I don't know I shouldn't make assumptions. And you have chosen to coach and not just coach anybody. Can you tell us a little bit about your coaching?

Vicki Keith: 34:03

Sure. I started out as a swim coach, before I got into my swimming career, and I loved working with young people, but the messages I was receiving from the coaches that were mentoring me, weren't things that I could live with. I was told never bend down to the level of a child stand up tall and make them look up at you. As a female coach that's the only way you're ever going to get respect. And, to have the have the swimmers refer to you as Ms. Keith. Because as a female coach, you're never going to get respect if they call you by your first name. And so I actually left coaching and I was not going to follow through on that career. And I headed into my swimming career and I was offered a position coaching with Variety Village, which is a fitness center for young people with physical disabilities. As, as well as their siblings and, and other people in the community. And it was such a different concept. And I wanted to challenge myself. And so that's what I chose to do is to start coaching athletes with physical disabilities. And over time and working at Variety Village, I thought, you know, I have my own perception of what we can do. And so I actually moved away from Variety Village and started my own program, and built a program for kids with physical disabilities and their able bodied siblings, but didn't allow other able bodied people into the program. Because it always felt to me like we ended up with an "us and them". And if a group of able bodied, young people were going to the mall, they didn't know how to include the child with a disability because they require different transportation. And so that person would get left out. And I found that families who'd never had a child with a disability, were afraid to ask the questions that would make it possible for a child to attend a birthday party or a sleepover. And what I wanted was to create something that was safe enough that everybody could participate equally. And I think that I realized that I was successful the day I watched two young people walk down the pool deck one using a walker, one was an able bodied sibling and they were talking about hockey. And as they got to the door to the change room, the able bodied child opened up the door, the conversation never stopped. They just kept on going. There wasn't

that moment of realization: 36:29

he's using a walker, he has a disability, I have to take action, I'm going to open the door. And that's for a really mild thing. Right. But it was, it's something that happens in brains of people who are are in an environment that they're not comfortable with. And for me, it was creating that environment where everybody was welcome to sleepovers, everybody was welcome to go to the mall together. And we had sleepovers at the Y and we would have a whole bunch of kids sleeping in a space. And we would play hide and go seek in the Y until midnight. And then they would all go to bed. And just creating an environment where these young people had a place to belong completely. And my intention wasn't to take it much beyond that, but the athletes showed me the path. And I had athletes qualify for regionals, then provincials, then Nationals, and then international competitions, we had athletes go to the Paralympic Games to World Championships to the ParaPanAm Games. And it was only because I was following them. I had no plan on becoming a high performance coach. But my goal was to support them or whatever their goals were. And so I've been now coaching both athletes in competitive swimming as well as open water swimming. And I've supported another number of athletes in open water swimming, including Carlos Costa, who swam across Lake Ontario he and he's a double leg amputee, a young Ashley Callen who swam the 20 kilometers across Lake Erie, and she's a quadruple amputee, she she's missing her arms below the elbow and her legs below the knees. And people would look at her going well, what kind of athlete could she ever be? Well, she swam across Lake Erie. And most people could never do that, or dream that they could do that. But Ashley then ended up moving on getting married and she has three beautiful children. So there's possibility for everybody. If we get rid of all those negative thoughts, and just see the possibilities and the positivity of what we could achieve.

Stephanie Allen: 38:39

Wow!

Maren Oslac: 38:41

Right? (laughter)

Stephanie Allen: 38:44

I'm so inspired! Oh, yeah, I'm so inspired. Because I love what you said. You didn't intend to become a high performance coach. And yet, you had this intrinsic motivation that liberated and leveled, and up-leveled everyone around you and included them. You brought them to a whole new world and a whole new world of possibilities for others who are wondering, well, what could I do? Or how could I make a change? Or... I think it's so inspiring, Vicki.

Vicki Keith: 39:13

Oh thank you. And it happened in little steps. It's not like one day Oh, crap, right? Like, it happened...

Stephanie Allen: 39:21

That's what I'm saying! It wasn't like, Okay, I'm gonna do this and here's all my steps to get there. It was it came from within, and then you were guided and kept following that what we would say the thread kept going, you know, when you pull a thread of something, you're like, oh, my god or weed. And it just, it's like, but it was it was a thread. And yes, it's something... Oh, wow!! That's what we're creating. Cool! And you were just you were so ready and willing to be that person to be that and I think that's in all of us. And I think that's what you're saying is it is in all of us, everybody.

Vicki Keith: 39:55

I think it's really important to point out that although it was a path that I was taking it wasn't taken alone. There's so many people, we have a circle around us of people that we can trust people, we who believe in us, people who maybe don't believe in us, but we trust what they think. But we have this circle. And if we can depend on that circle, if we can keep those people close to us. I mean, without my husband, John, I never would have been able to follow this path. Without my parents, I never would have dreamt of this path in some direction. Without my grandmother, who was an adventurer, or my grandfather, who I never met, but flew first airmail flights in Canada, all of these little pieces, these are all part of my circle. And I think it's really important that we draw that circle in and understand that even when I was swimming across a great lake, it wasn't me alone, there was 20 people or more in the boats around me supporting me and each had their own jobs, to make sure that that was successful. And not all of them believed that it was possible. But all of them were willing to work towards helping me find limits or not limits as the case may be.

Maren Oslac: 41:04

It's a great metaphor, I love that, you know, for our lives, absolutely. Like we're swimming across Great Lakes in our lives, and we have the team of people around us, and some of them may not believe it's possible, and they're willing to support us anyway. You know, that's fantastic. One last thing I kind of want to touch on is, one of the things I hear in your stories is, before there were labels like neurodivergence, and ADHD, and all of the things that we now labeled people with. We still do try and make put everybody into a norm. And if you're outside of that norm, you now have a label. And one of the things that I love about your story, Vicki is that you never looked at, or maybe I shouldn't say never, what I my experience of you is that you don't look at your being different, the way that you think differently as a disability, you look at it as an advantage, and you find where that advantage helps you in the world, and then you move in that direction.

Vicki Keith: 42:21

Yeah. There are things that have impacted my life completely with ADHD, that I sort of wish I hadn't had to experience. There's things that are very difficult about having ADHD and the frustrations that come with it. But dwelling on that isn't something that I wanted to do. And so I found the things that I could do. That I could use to to be successful. And I don't think I did that with knowledge. I wasn't aware that I was doing it. But you know, finding open water swimming when when you're somebody who has a real difficulty changing tasks. Open water, swimming is a great option, because I'm not changing tasks. If I stop, I have to get out of the water that's changing a task. And so for me, that's actually made this sport easier for me, even stopping and treading water for a feeding was sometimes difficult because I was in a process I was swimming, and stopping, which could change my mindset, and all of a sudden, maybe I'm thinking of something in a different way. And it could sway the wrong way and, and really disrupt me. And so it was it was, but I could use the ADHD in certain ways to find success. And I think that it's really important that when you have a neurodivergence or anything, is there's advantages and disadvantages, and find the advantages and don't ignore the disadvantages. I mean, when you see somebody using a wheelchair, and you think, wow, their life is limited. Well, not really, that wheelchair is their mobility, and they are going to do everything possible in the world, maybe in a slightly different way. But if they can figure out a different way to do it, then we can learn about it. It's just like imagine if every building had a ramp into it instead of stairs. And not only would a person who uses a wheelchair be able to get up there. But people using walkers, people carrying heavy heavy packages people with dollies, parents with young children, a ramp would help everybody. Right? And that sort of mentality is let's make our world more accessible, but accept that that we can we can achieve things in any way. I can tell you I know a lot of young people who if they saw the stairs and it was the only way in they would be going up those stairs. Right? They're going to do it differently but they're going to get it done.

Maren Oslac: 44:57

Well, this has been absolutely amazing. Stephanie, did you have any other questions that you...?

Stephanie Allen: 45:07

Oh, I just say thank you. This is just is opening up possibilities. And I just I love, I love the way you focus on a higher story, a higher vision, that and that you are literally tuning into all the time and as you step into it, you are a role model for so many, including myself. So thank you so much for taking the time to be with us today and sharing with with our listeners. Thank you.

Vicki Keith: 45:37

Oh, I was happy to.

Maren Oslac: 45:39

And Vicki, is there anything that you want? If listeners wanted to contact you, I know you're a public speaker and you're writing a book and you are also a coach. So if there was somebody that wanted to contact you about any of those things, how would they reach you?

Vicki Keith: 45:56

I think the easiest way is both WordPress and on Facebook, VickiKeith-BesideTheBoat They can reach me through either of those of those formats. And I'm pretty good at responding within at least a couple of days, sometimes sooner, but I'm not on on social media that much. So sometimes it slides without me noticing.

Maren Oslac: 46:18

And I'll be sure to put that in our show notes. Because Vicki is spelled V i c k i Correct? So if you're wondering, you can always go to the show notes for the

https: 46:29

//thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com/ and thank you again for being with us Vicki. It was just spectacular. And we hope to have you on again.

Vicki Keith: 46:39

That'd be awesome. I had a lot of fun. Thank you so much.

Maren Oslac: 46:42

So you can find us on Facebook and on LinkedIn, the soulful leaders and also on our website, for the Soulful Leader

project at: https: 46:50

//tslp.life/ We'll see you all next week.

Stephanie Allen: 47:02

And that wraps up another episode of the Soulful Leader Podcast with your host, Stephanie Allen and

Maren Oslac: 47:08

Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website at the

https: 47:15

//thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com/

Stephanie Allen: 47:19

Until next time,