The Soulful Leader Podcast
The Soulful Leader Podcast
Ep 165 Right Person Wrong Job
Most of the time there’s a mismatch between ‘job’ and ‘person’ -
- Jobs need to be filled. Finding passionate and knowledgeable help, that’s just a bonus!
- People need work. Finding something you enjoy at a good company, that’s for the lucky few.
Even the best ‘matched’ positions (right person) are usually not quite right (wrong job).
It’s crazy that this is the accepted standard!
It has a negative impact on the company (customer attrition, environment, co-workers, etc.), the worker (mental, physical and emotional health, family, time, etc) and the customer (feeling slighted, not heard, abused, etc).
Yet we live like this every day of the year. It’s the norm, it’s built into the ‘cost of doing business’.
This week, Maren and Stephanie tackle this important leadership issue - yes, it does fall on the shoulders of leaders - through a story about Maren’s dog, Jemma, and a trip to the vet (no animals were harmed in the recording of this podcast).
There is a way to ask for help, to get the help we need and for it to be a win-win-win. However, we need to rewrite the playbook, to think, and act, differently. Our planet desperately needs people who are ready to think differently. Are you one of them?
- 00:32 What happens when there’s no space
- 03:12 Separating personal and professional
- 07:36 What’s important funeral exercise
- 10:35 Making space for an alternative
- 14:33 The power of allowing feeling
- 15:59 Awareness, gifts & strengths
- 18:30 The cost
- 20:16 Three rules of asking for help
- 22:54 Solutions & Verbal Arm Wrestling
LINKS
10:45 Podcast Maren mentions: Ep 161: Missed Takes or Mistakes
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In a world where we have everything and it's still not enough, we're often left wondering, is this really it?
Unknown:Deep inside you know there's more to life. You're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper, more meaningful life that's calling you.
Stephanie Allen:That's what we invite you to explore with us. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen
Unknown:and Maren Oslac, and this is The Soulful Leader Podcast.
Stephanie Allen:Yay!
Maren Oslac:Welcome to The Soulful Leader Podcast. I'm Maren, and I'm here with Stephanie, and we were chatting about having the right people work with us, or for us, but in the wrong positions, in the wrong places. So the reason that came up is recently, my dog was ill, and she spent a couple days at our vet, and then my vet had to close, and so she spent a couple days at a different place. It was kind of an emergency place, and I went to take her back to our vet, and when I called, there was a very abrupt woman who answered the phone, and she was more of a gatekeeper than a customer service person, in that she basically ended up saying to me that I needed to find a new vet or take her to the ER because they had no space for me. I was in a place of vulnerability in that my dog was sick, and we didn't know what was going on, and we're in this process. It's been a week of this and and I found myself matching her energy and getting argumentative and getting like, I couldn't find any solution, and she was not offering me any solutions. She was just saying, nope, we have no room for you. And I was like, Are you firing me as a client? I've been with these, this vet for like, 10-15, years. She's like, no, ma'am, you're not listening to me. And that was like, kind of the tone of the voice of the whole thing of and I was just so... I was hurt. I was offended. I had no space for any solutions. I didn't even know the questions to ask of like, well, do you have room tomorrow? Do you have like, what are my options? She gave me no options, and she hung up. And so then I called a different vet, because I was like, okay, I need to find another vet. And this wonderful woman, right person for the right job, answered the phone and she had me in tears, because immediately she said, I'm so sorry, I wish we could take you on. We have no room, and you're gonna find that everywhere right now. We're overbooked ourselves. I'm so sorry. We can't help you. Do you know the local ER's? And I was like, well, I only know the ones that that are open when you are closed. And she helped me. She spent 10 minutes on the phone with me, helping me find other options for my dog. And I thought, why didn't the person at my vet do that?
Stephanie Allen:I think what happens is we get so caught up in matter of fact, instead of human connection, and I don't know, maybe it's because we've become much more distant, not only like you know, we've come so much more virtual, so much more less hands on or in your face. I've seen that again and again, even after the pandemic of just walking in my neighborhood, where people used to make eye contact and just kind of nod or wave, you know, when you're going down your driveway to your cottage or, you know, in this rural area that I live, and there's less of that connection, there's more of that focus on, okay, I gotta get here, and I gotta do that, and it's like we're leaving that human connection behind. And how important that human connection is, it makes all the difference, because even what you're sharing of like having that first experience where there was no human connection, there was no heart, there was no soul, and then going to a complete stranger, to another, you know, another vet that you don't even have any kind of relationship with, and yet this woman took the time to make connection, and that's all that mattered. I mean, I mean that woman that made connection with you opened your heart because her heart was open. And I think that's a real key. It's like, like you had said about you kind of matched that first person's energy, because that first person's energy, your heart was open. You called with an open heart, and she was closed down. She shut down. And then, in order for you to protect yourself. you shut your heart down and kind of, and I think that's what happens a lot of times, in a lot of
Unknown:Yeah, it's so interesting. There are a couple different things I wanted to say about that. Is just this morning places, a lot of relationships, a lot of work, a lot of, you know, it's all the facts, just the business, just, you know, we were talking about the fact that I run a networking group, which is a women's networking group, and somebody recently said to me, I wish you were more professional. And what she meant by that was that there was less of the personal in it, that it was just business. And I think that speaks to what you're talking about. And we are people who are in business, and when we separate business and personal, we end up with a separation inside of ourselves. And that's the beginning of schizophrenia, right? Like when we separate ourselves, and I think about this even when I hear work life balance of like, it's got to be an integration, not a balancing, because that's we're encouraging separate parts of ourselves. And really what we want to do is bring those parts together and be in communication and exactly what you're saying of out there with people, we want to have a human connection and also inside of ourselves. That's so important. When we separate out these elements and say, well, that doesn't belong over here, it actually creates a divide within us, and we're feeling that we see it in our country right now, the huge divide in our country, I know you're experiencing in your country. We're we're seeing it all over the world, this divide that's that's getting wider. Well, hmm, maybe it has something to do with the fact that we're actually keeping this life, our personal life, separate from that life, our business life, and they're not two separate things.
Stephanie Allen:Yeah, I think that is actually the disease. Is when we try to separate it, it's like separating your heart from your head, or separating your right side from your left side, or your inhale from your exhale, you can't. It's meant to be harmonious. It's meant to be an integration of both, the wholeness. And, you know, I recently just came back from a funeral of this dear woman that had passed, you know, and I think it's a really good exercise to presence yourself at your own funeral, like, imagine, you know, going to your own funeral, not about who or how many are there. It's not so much that, but what is said, what what is the, what is the sermon that would be led? You know, what would people say to your loved ones about you? And I think that's a real, a real key, and I was very present to that myself, of like, you know, I didn't know this woman for very long, but she really deeply touched my heart. She was an amazing soul, and I didn't know her family at all. And so there's a part of me that says, well, why bother, right? Why bother even going and I'm like, well, wait a minute, because then I'm just the therapist, I'm just the transaction, and I'm not I'm a human being. I cared about her deeply, and I wanted to share also how much she cared about her loved ones and the stories and the things that she left. I think if we if we look at our lives differently, because they are very short and very quick and really your stuff, it just, it doesn't really matter at the end of it, that people fight over it. More than anything it's the memories. It's the way one is with one in one's life, how they orchestrated even their business. It's like, you know, we talk about integrity, like, you know, it's such an interesting thing, isn't it? It's like, why would you hire somebody who doesn't have a lot of integrity? Is it just to make the almighty dollar and to get things done and and yet, when someone doesn't have integrity, it's actually going to cost you so much more than... it will cost you money too. It will, it will cost you your money, but it'll also cost relationships and trust and value. There's so much more at risk, and I don't think we look at that. So like just going back to your experience. Yeah, it's like going back to the experience of here you had been a 15 year client, a very loyal client, to this vet, and had good service. That one interaction where there was no soul, and then you called someone you had no relationship whatsoever, and she completely risked everything to make a relationship, even though she kew that she wasn't going to get your your business right. But I can guarantee you... I'll bet you anything... just even talk you talking about this wonderful woman that that made a soulful connection with you. She'll get business from referrals from you. And if you're in need of a vet, you know, and they have space, you will go. We don't look at that do we?
Unknown:I do want to say I started the whole podcast with the right person wrong job, and I don't want to shame this woman, because I don't know what was going on in her life, if she
Stephanie Allen:But you didn't send it. was having a bad day, if, you know, like everything was going nuts there, and she had no space and no time to do anything with this client who's like... but I need to get in, my dog is sick!... we can't handle it right now. So she had no space for whatever reason. I happened to have talked to her before and know that this is her normal way of being. And so as a leader, what I was thinking about once I got my feet back under me and I could actually think... what I was thinking about is, like, it's my responsibility as the leader, as the vet, in this case, to know my people's strengths and weaknesses. Because that vet and there happened to be two, two of them in practice there, they don't know that as a client, I'm ready
Maren Oslac:I sent it to myself. I sent it to myself to walk out the door because of being treated badly once, and so because it needed to come out. And I found that when I talk to I look at that too, of like, okay, I had one bad interaction over 15 years. Would I really leave them? That's not fair to people about it, it creates, almost like a vicious cycle of a them. What needs to happen from my end is for me to communicate meme. Well, I need to tell this person, I need to tell that in a good way and not a bashing way, that, like this experience happened and you might want to do something about it. And if it person I need to like. They just need to like. I get vindicated, happens again, then maybe look at going to a different vet. So and I didn't want to be vindicated. I wanted a solution. there are multiple levels that I got to look at for myself. The first one was, what do I do with all the anger and hurt? So I had That's all I wanted, and not at somebody else's expense, not at mentioned this in a podcast a couple weeks ago. The first I this woman's expense. She's just she's probably brilliant at her would the first thing I did was I wrote the angry email. I was angry at this person, at being treated like this, at being not job, and shouldn't be talking to people. They need a better valued as a customer, and all the stuff right away, poor me, people person in that position, whatever. I don't know. So then right? Yeah, it's all about because the whole world is about me, right? And that's where that anger and that person, she the next step for me was, what's a different story that I could needed to be heard. tell, and that you just heard a couple of them of, like, she's brilliant at her job. She shouldn't be talking to people. They were overly busy. They were this, like, I don't know. So once I tell a different story, now I can come from a place of compassion, and I can look at the fact that I can be the angry client and try and find a different vet when at this point I called several and nobody has any openings. Or I can honor the fact that they've served me well for 15 years, and maybe they just need a hand in saying, Hey, did you know that this is going on? Because if she talked to me like that, she's not just talking to me like that, there are other clients. And have you lost other clients? And there may be a better position for her, you know.
Stephanie Allen:And sometimes, I mean, I hear what you're saying with that too. It's like it's an opportunity, but sometimes, you know, it's a great opportunity to go inward as well and go, you know, you have to feel it to heal it. And sometimes, you know, when you're when you're raw and you're open and it's not received, to also then go, okay, what am I needing right now? How do I need to really... and you did that by feeling that emotion. I just want to recognize that you took a moment to feel it by writing it out and sending that email to yourself, just so that you could witness it and also be heard by basically another part of yourself that could then come in and and nurture you and say... Oh, I'm so sorry that that happened, and not like poor me or any of those things, but just to give that space of... that was really hard. It was really scary,
Maren Oslac:Kind of like the other vet tech or, you know, person who answered the phone gave me the space to open my heart again. And I will say, I was, by the time I got off the phone with that other woman who gave me 10 minutes of her time and was going to get nothing in return, I was bawling. I was like, thank you. So it does when, when you can feel that, when you can be in a place of opening up again and not staying in that closed down, angry place, it makes space, and that's where the solutions come from.
Stephanie Allen:I think as leaders, too. I'm just thinking
Maren Oslac:I went through that at the studio. I had hired a of this woman that that was, you know, the the angry gatekeeper, woman who had said, like, yes, I love working at the front desk. so to speak, to your vet, I think there's a real self awareness to be able to say, okay, wait a minute. I'm flooded, you know, I'm up to here, to my head. I have no more I'm really good with details. I can handle all of this stuff. space. To say, I need to take some time for myself, because And about two months into it, we had to have a conversation. It I'm now, I'm in reaction, and to walk away, to take a moment. I think that's where, you know, where in our lives, we're not was like, That's not your thing, is it? She goes, No, I really, doing that of just saying, you know, because we let somebody else have it, or we beat ourselves up about it, instead really like it. And I'm like, come on, let's be honest. of saying, wait a minute, I think I need something, because I'm in reaction, and I want to find a new place to meet this Because you're actually all of the details keep falling between person at, and I can't right now. So again, coming back to like, I need help, and I think, you know, coming back to the the cracks and you what is the majority of your time spent vet, knowing their staff, their gifts and their strengths. Like we know this too, ourselves. You know, sometimes people know doing? What do you really love doing? And as I talked to her, their, we think they know their gifts and strengths. And then as it started like... I had to actually start to point out of you start to kind of move into something, you realize, oh, that really isn't my gift or strength. Everybody tells me it like, you love creating the, you know, like the the advertising is, but I'm not really passionate about I'm not really interested in it, and it's really taking a lot of energy for us, don't you? She's like, oh yeah, that really excites me. for me to do that. I think that self awareness is so key on both ends. As an employer, as a leader, and as yourself, in But I can do this other stuff. There was this... but I can. And relationship with life, with the world I guess the thing for me is just because you can doesn't mean that you should. And I have to tell myself that all the freaking time. And I think most solopreneurs are in that position of, they have to do everything, and they can do everything, and then you get addicted to it, because you get chemicals. Your body is going to flood with chemicals. Ah, we can do this girl right!? Or even the anger chemicals like that. We do get the chemicals right? So then we keep turning to that and turning to that. And I was like, just because I can doesn't mean I should. And for us as leaders, that's looking at ourselves, it's also looking at our teams of what's the cost to having them do that? What's the cost to them? Like this woman, pretty much probably constantly in anger. There's a cost to her, right? That's that she's experiencing her own body. What's the cost to my business? Am I losing customers because this person's in the wrong position, right? And I'm not saying get rid of the person, just find the right place for that person, because they have a gift.
Stephanie Allen:Because I think, you know, the big thing that gets in the way on both of those is ego. Pride and ego, you know. And I have a good acronym for egos... 'Edging Good Out', And you know, we punish ourselves. We beat ourselves up. We try to make it harder, you know, instead of just saying, hmm, what would be the place for me, or can I ask for help? Because ego will also stop you from asking for help. Because we think, oh they'll think, I'm incapable. Well, guess what? You probably are. But that's okay. That's okay. Now you're asking for help so that you can become capable, you know, and I kind of have that little rule of myself, of like, if I'm struggling with something, and it's been longer than 15 minutes, I need to ask for help, because I'm now, I'm beating myself up, and my ego's in the way, and I'm edging good out. So who is it that I know that could help me with this? Or what do I need to learn to help me with this? Like, get help? I think we have such a crappy thing about getting help.
Maren Oslac:You know, I heard you say that. I think you had said that on a team meeting at one point someplace recently. I don't think it was on a podcast, but it might have been. And I applied that because it stuck in my head. If I'm struggling with something for more than 15 minutes, that's just ridiculous. Get help. Ask for help. And I did come up against my ego, and it was not pretty...(laughter) I had to have this whole probably a 15 minute conversation with myself. Of you can't ask for help. No, that's ridiculous. This is silly, right?
Stephanie Allen:Like the back and forth well, and I can also hear a lot of people saying, well, I do ask for help, and I can't get it. I can't get the help that I need. I hear that one a lot too, and that is also a dopamine fix, a chemical fix too, because we tend to ask people who can't help us, we either don't have the capacity to help us, don't have the skill set to help us, or, you know, they just can't help us, or, you know, the time, whatever it is. And that's another, that's another ego block of like saying, What if I, what if I could ask somebody who could actually help me? Right?
Maren Oslac:Because, see when, when we ask somebody who can't help us, we get to be right about the fact that I shouldn't ask for help,
Stephanie Allen:there isn't any, yeah, I shouldn't ask anyway,
Unknown:I have proof it doesn't work, and I've tried that, and yeah, then you just get to be right. So do you want, right, do you want to be right, or do you want to, do you actually want help? That's a great question to ask ourselves.
Stephanie Allen:And then sometimes we just don't even know that we need help. So I always say, how do you know when you need help? You're irritated, you're flooded, you're like, reactive, or you're in resignation, like, why bother anyway? That's when you need to ask for help. And sometimes even asking for help in the way of saying, I know I need to ask for help, and I don't even know how to ask for it, but this is how I'm feeling, or this is what's going on. I think being vulnerable, being real, is so refreshing, and it's coming right back to what we said right the very beginning of that phone call with that vet. It's like if we actually had someone who was just dropped-in real and could relate and connect. It changes everything.
Maren Oslac:Like we could have had the same conversation from a totally different place, and there would have been space for solutions then. Of you know what? I'm very sorry. We really care about Jemma. She's like, and that's the name of my dog. She was here last week. And you know, we just, we have no space at all. No space today? Or no space ever? Well, that's a good question. Like we could have gotten to... like we couldn't even get to that there were, there was no space for anything at all, and because I dropped into that energy with her, neither of us had space, you know? So that's a great lesson for me, of that's one of the things that I'm working on, is I want to be able to maintain my presence and not drop to somebody else's level of anger or whatever disgruntledness, so that I can keep having space for solutions.
Stephanie Allen:And you could just drop in your own heart as saying, well, what would be the most loving question to ask right now, or what would be the most loving way to be with myself right now? I think it's not an either or it's "both and" So it's not about me against them. It's about how, where do I need to go that will bring both of us into a whole new place of love and kindness and connection? Yeah
Unknown:Yeah. Because the conversation was definitely a me against you... one of us is going to win. It was like a an arm wrestling, and we've all experienced that, right? The arm wrestling, the verbal arm wrestling,
Stephanie Allen:The one who wears out first is the other one gets the win. You know, it's like, what if there wasn't, you know, win, lose. What if we could... I really do hold that, it's like, you know, to create a win. Win means we both have to let go of our agenda and our ego.
Maren Oslac:Yeah, we have to get to and and we need the space to be able to do it. I hope that as leaders, one of the things that you took away from today is that both internally, yourself, and for your teams, there is a way to have the right person in the right position. That's actually what we do, is we help people to find that what are people's gifts? What are your team's gifts and strengths? What are your gifts and strengths? And how do you stay in that place, so that you're in flow, so that you have the space for extra, you know, energy and for solutions, instead of getting, instead of devolving to where, where I was... right? So that your customers also are at a higher place, and you're not verbally arm wrestling with them. So if you'd like to work with us, feel free to give us a call. Contact us. You can find us on our professional website www.tslp.life (It stands for The Soulful Leader Project). And if you'd like to hear more podcasts, you can find us on our podcast website, which is www.thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com. You can also reach us on social media, which is The Soulful Leaders. We'll see you all next week on The Soulful Leader Podcast.
Stephanie Allen:And that wraps up another episode of The Soulful Leader Podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen
Maren Oslac:and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website, at thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com
Stephanie Allen:Until next time...