From Drama to Empowerment

Think about that time when you were so irritated you could barely see straight. That’s emotional hijacking - it happens more than we notice AND it costs us way more than we realize.

It can cost you a client, a team member, a partnership or even your reputation. As a leader, you definitely want an alternative.

In today’s podcast, Maren and Stephanie talk about Maren’s personal experience of being emotionally hijacked that led her to almost transfer her emotions onto her husband. 

This vulnerable, real and funny discussion travels through the Drama Triangle (victim, violator, rescuer), the importance of creating a safe space within oneself and the role of imagination in shifting out of the drama. Most importantly, Maren and Stephanie share a favorite tool to break the drama cycle and literally build new, more empowering pathways in the brain.  

• 00:31 Complete irritation
• 04:04 Safe space
• 06:55 Drama Triangle
• 10:37 An alternative, space to re-story
• 15:54 Five versions
• 20:01 Where to start, the power of practice
• 24:11 Co-Creation Circle

Does this type of work interest you?
Be sure to check out Maren & Stephanie's 2025 Co-Creation Circle. It’s built for leaders that want to go more deeply into changing their world, into making shift happen - from the inside out.

LINKS

12:05 Halloween Podcast: Ep 170 More Energy, Your Shadow’s Gift

20:43 Joe Dispenza YouTube Video

TRANSCRIPT

YouTube Video

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Transcript

Stephanie Allen: 0:04

In a world where we have everything and it's still not enough, we're often left wondering, is this really it deep inside?

Maren Oslac: 0:11

You know, there's more to life you're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper, more meaningful life that's calling you.

Stephanie Allen: 0:19

That's what we invite you to explore with us. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac, and this is The Soulful Leader Podcast. Yay! Hi. Welcome to The Soulful Leader Podcast. This is Stephanie. I'm here with Maren, and I'm going to start with a question. Have you ever had something or someone that just irritated the living daylights out of you, that you just are like, so internally in reaction to... like, maybe they said something or maybe they did something, or it just feels totally out of your control, and you want to make them wrong so that you can be right? And I bring this up because it's like that emotional hijacking. It's almost like we've talked about this in the past, about our chemicals and our internal chemicals we can be really addicted to, so we can set ourselves up to have things in the in this world that really, really evoke an emotion, so that we can get a fix. But this is even beyond that. It's like, sometimes you're even aware of something that, and you're like, I am in such a reaction to what this person did or said or is, is acting like right now. How do you deal with that? Like, what do you do? That's my question. What do you do when that happens? How do you... what are your patterns? What are your behaviors that you do ? Do you know? Do you run away and avoid all at all costs that you know that post on Facebook or that person in real life, or you turn off the news, or whatever it is that's really irritating you? Or do you fight like hell and just get in there and just growl? Or is there another way?

Maren Oslac: 2:03

So it's so interesting that you say that, because just this morning, I was making breakfast, and my husband and I were in the in the kitchen together, and there was something on the news that, like, I didn't realize how much it impacted me until my husband looked at me and he said, Okay, what did I do wrong?And I realized that I was like, throwing things around in the house, right in the kitchen, and I was about to tell him off all the things he did wrong, and I caught myself. It's not him. And it was so easy for me to transfer those emotions from what I heard on the news, because it was so subliminal, of like, I didn't realize that there was this thing going on in the background, because the TV is just kind of going on in the background, and it caught my attention. Then all of a sudden, it was like, what did I do wrong? Uh oh. And I was like, Oh my gosh. So for me, I really had to stop, because I had both of those reactions as you were just talking about. I wanted to rail. I wanted to blame. And it turns out, I wanted to rail and blame because the person on the news wasn't right there. I couldn't do something about that. I wanted to, you know, take it out on my husband, because he was...

Stephanie Allen: 3:33

...he was the closest projectile that you could throw something at.

Maren Oslac: 3:38

Yeah, and you know what? There's plenty of things, if you've ever been in a long term relationship, there's plenty of things that I could have beaten him up about. I could have found all the reasons to be right about every single one of those. And I stopped, which I was pretty proud of myself for that I stopped. I didn't let that train go down that road and to go to your other point of, do you run away? Then I ran away. Yeah, I went into the bathroom. I curled up on the stupid floor, and I just breathed. I cried my eyes out, and I breathed. And so there is that, like the emotional hijacking is real, and it's hard. And what happens when you don't have some place where you can go and just feel it? That's what I did. I went and I felt it, I lived with it, and I let it move through me. You talk alot about that.

Stephanie Allen: 4:41

Yeah, about feeling it, to heal it, and that can be a really scary place. I think a lot of times, if we haven't got a safe space...And when I talk about safe space, I'm not talking about the bathroom floor like that you had, but safe space within ourselves to be able to go and just rest there and look at something from new eyes, from a new place, like a an objective, non judgmental place, instead of blaming, you know, the outer world, or shaming, which is more the internal self of like, oh, I should have done this, and I should have, should have, should have, should have, you know, that's the shaming part of it. To be able to just be with it without trying to fix it or figure it out, but just notice what's happening in your body.

Maren Oslac: 5:29

That's such a foreign thing, totally. I mean, you and I have been working on this for years, and even still, for me, it's a foreign thing to just be with it.

Stephanie Allen: 5:40

It is so bloody uncomfortable, it is so unfamiliar. Our culture does not set up a safe space for us to do

Maren Oslac: 5:48

No, it's like people want an instant. So that. here's part of the reason that I went away was because I knew in that moment I was not going to be able to have a rational, productive conversation with my husband about what was going on and that it wasn't him, that it was the news, whatever, right? I was already emotionally hijacked, so I needed to go away and create space. And like you said, Yes, I was able to do it physically, because I was able to separate myself and go into thebathroom, etc, etc. More importantly, I was able to do it internally for myself. I have created, I've taken the time to create a safe environment for myself. So I knew where I could go inside of myself to do that. I also allowed myself the time and the energy to not even have to do that, to just feel like crap.

Stephanie Allen: 6:55

Yeah, I'm gonna take this a little deeper in the way of understanding that, because there's... think of of what's called the Drama Triangle, which is pretty much every Hollywood movie is based on, you know, there's a there's a victim, because, you know, this victim has been victimized by this violator, and we need a rescuer to come in to make it a happily ever after the end kind of story, right, right? And that's kind of the dance of the Hollywood films...

Maren Oslac: 7:23

...but it's all literature too. I mean, that's like hero's journey

Stephanie Allen: 7:27

...all those different things that we talk about. But how do we internalize that? Because we can go in and we might in the moment, feel victimized by hearing what we're hearing on the news or from a relationship, and you know that we're having a conversation with, we take it personally, like, Oh my God, I am such a victim right now, and you're my violator. And we look outside ourselves for something like a system or someone you know in power to rescue us. And this is the Drama Triangle. This is, this is actually a trauma. Like to be able to feel it and heal it, we have to be able to even recognize that actually all three parts of us are inside of ourselves. So if we can create some space, well, how do we do that? We can create some space inside of ourselves for those three archetypes, the Victim, the Violator and the Rescuer to actually have some space to work it out, and that you are kind of the director. You're the director of this film or of this novel, and you're like... Okay, you know right now, little Stephanie, who's been victimized, is just a freaking hot mess right now. And I'm watching what she's doing. She's either gonna fight back or she's going to run away and hide and she's going to look for rescuer. Well, what if, as the observer, I'm also the rescuer, and I can say, what are you needing, Little Stephanie, what are you needing right now? What's going on? What, what really are you feeling? And to give that voice, or to give that presence within myself, a little bit of space, because that little Stephanie might just say, I'm scared to death, or I feel left and abandoned and I feel judged and ridiculed. It's like having this little inner therapy party. And why I'm saying this is that this is coming from imagination. We have to be able to cultivate our imagination, which is the right side of our brain. By the way, it's an area that hasn't really been developed a whole lot in our culture. We're very much left dominant, which is neither right nor wrong, nor good or bad. It's just that it's really, really strong. And so how do we shift over onto that right side is through imagination and creativity and curiosity and wonder. We've talked a lot about this on our podcast, so I think what I'm hearing you say is, when you went to the bathroom, you probably had a little moment of just feeling what you're feeling. And perhaps maybe you took some timeto really look inside and go... what is this really about? Like, what? Not trying to figure it out, but just asking, being curious.

Maren Oslac: 9:59

I did. And I acknowledged each of those roles inside of me. So as you were talking, I was thinking about that, of like, if I had stayed in the kitchen and talked to my husband, I would have gone from victim, which is what I was feeling, to violator, because I would have taken it out on him, and then my little hero, I don't even know where my hero would have gone. Maybe it would have been like, ah, look at me. See you've done so good, because now you feel good about yourself because, I'm better than the... what? There is no good conversation that comes out of that.

Stephanie Allen: 10:34

Now you just keep going around that triangle, around and around and around.

Maren Oslac: 10:37

Exactly, and then you made somebody else feel like crap. So when I took some time out for myself, I did look at that of like, okay, if I were not a victim...and you know, it's like, I allowed myself to feel the victim energy, right? And then I actually allowed myself to feel what it would have felt like if I had, like, smashed my husband, right, and been like, okay, that didn't actually feel as good as I thought it was going to. And so that wasn't the hero that I needed. And once I had played that out inside of me internally, then there was actually some space for another alternative. Because there is another alternative besides one of those three responses. And I love that you called it creativity, because that is stepping outside, like you said. It's that observer. It's stepping to the outside and saying, what if none of that is true? It's just stories that I'm telling myself, and what, what role does it play in my life to help me evolve as a human being? And when I can look at it from that perspective? I go, oh it's here to serve me. And you know, our podcast, I believe it was our Halloween podcast, where we talked about living in a friendly universe. So if I believe that I live in a friendly universe, then it is here to serve me. And now I don't need to be victim, violator or hero. I can go, oh, there's something for me to evolve and grow out of this. What is it? And now I get to the other thing you were talking about, the curiosity, yeah, and the wonder and the 'this isn't being done to me', it's something that I created. That's my belief, personally, is that I create my world...so it's something that I created for me so that I could grow and become a more evolved human being.

Stephanie Allen: 12:53

Takes a lot of patience with yourself to do that. Oh my gosh. I mean, it does, you know, and if you're in a relationship with somebody and they're in that hot messness, it takes a lot of love and compassion to not take it personally too, to not be their rescuer, or not be like, you know, we all want to be each other's hero, right? And we have to learn, how do we rescue ourselves? Because that's when we actually transform something, that's when we actually shift or move, and we reclaim back our projected power that we put outside of ourselves. So again, what do I mean by that? What the heck does that mean? A lot of lingo, right? I'm just using the example of you in the kitchen with with your husband. There can be a part of you that goes, okay, I'm really mad at him. Why does he not recognize how stupid he was, you know and he should be rescuing me right now, so now I'm going to beat him up for that too, because he's not even rescuing me. And we just create this dancing and, you know, God love him, he's in a place of, like, I don't even know where to go. He is... I have no idea what just happened here. This woman's in menopause, and she's having a hot... you know, all these different things that we make, and then he's got his own stories going on, right? Instead of, what if there was no right or wrong or good or bad? What if it was that there were things that were coming up. And I'm saying this because what if, in our life, when we start to feel like that, it's not because we're doing something wrong or right or good or bad, it's actually that it's welling up to to offer you some opportunity for energy to transform, to restore something, yeah, to re-story, a whole new way of being in this relationship or being in this moment.

Maren Oslac: 14:41

So I'm going to go back to something that it takes patience and it takes some building, some skill, because this is a practice that I have been working with for many years. Not to be disheartening to people who are 'well, I want to be able to do that'... great! I'm so glad that's where it starts. And I think a first step is to look at the fact that it is a story, and that I could tell a different story. So again, going back to what you're saying of what do I mean by that? So the story that I told myself was that something on the news was offensive, that it was personally hurtful to me.

Stephanie Allen: 15:34

You took it personally.

Maren Oslac: 15:36

Yeah! Did it have to be? No, it was based on a lot of conditioning that I have that tells me that, oh, that's a threat. That's a threat to me, whatever was going on.

Stephanie Allen: 15:49

So you didn't feel safe, insecure inside, right?

Maren Oslac: 15:54

And safety and security are stories that we tell ourselves, because one person can feel perfectly safe in the fire, in the mouth of the dragon, and the other person can't or doesn't. And where does that come from? That comes from our conditioning, from the stories that we're trained in. So the good news is that we can retrain those stories. We can re-story, like you were talking about. We can rewrite, if we can rewrite it. It does take practice. So one of the practices that I have is that I do regularly, meaning that probably several days a week, I actually take stories in my life that I tell myself, and I look at what are five other stories that I could tell about that thing?

Stephanie Allen: 16:44

So you come up with different versions, like five different versions.

Maren Oslac: 16:47

I do. So

Stephanie Allen: 16:49

and whether they're true or not, it doesn't matter. You're just letting yourself creatively come up with five different versions.

Maren Oslac: 16:57

You said that the healing comes often times, you know, like healing comes from the right side of our brain, which is we engage that through imagination and creativity. So if I, you know, like, say, for example, I want to reach three clients this week, and I didn't. So the story that I tell myself is that I'm not good enough and I beat myself up, or whatever the story is, that's one story, right? So a different story might be that there's somebody else that I was meant to reach, than those three clients. Another story might be that those three clients were not my ideal client, and that I get to have this opportunity to redefine my avatar. So that's where and sometimes I get stuck, and I can't think of another story, that's a great opportunity to then maybe ask somebody else if this had happened to you, what and how would you have responded to it? What's a story that you would tell about it? So I just play. I play, and you know what it has given me? That's one of the things that I miss in my life as an adult, is play. So it sounds like a strange place to play, but it's been really powerful for me, and it's given me the space and the training and the skill set to be able to tell a different story when I'm caught. You started the whole conversation with, what do you do? What do you do when you're caught in that emotional runaway train. I stop, I breathe into it, I feel what I need to feel, and then I re-story.

Stephanie Allen: 18:51

It's like when you're on fire. Stop, drop and roll.

Maren Oslac: 18:54

Stop, drop and

Stephanie Allen: 18:55

you're on fire right now. You know it's a hot mess. It's burning. It's a burning house. Stop, right now. Stop everything. Just stop, yeah, and go inside. It's not about running away. It's like you're going inside and checking inside. What is the story that I'm telling myself that is creating this emotional runway train? Yeah, and it's not just one story. There could be many stories in there. I like what you're saying is now can I allow my curiosity and my imagination to create five news stories about that? I'm not attached to any of them, and they're not about being right or wrong or good or bad. It's just cultivating a creativity, a restoration. And then you can look at those stories and go, now, which one lifts me up, not makes me in a reaction or a fight, but what really calls to me, the most loving, most beautiful, not just for me, but for everyone, what would be the most beautiful, higher story that I could tell and live into that. That is the practice. Look, it sounds easy. I think maybe some of you might be saying that's like, I freaking don't even know where to start, and that's because in the right side of the brain, when we talk about healing, we haven't developed that part to be able to listen to go in and be imaginative. I mean, yes, we're being imaginative because we're putting all our energy into that fight or flight one instead of can we open up the doorway to create even more imagination, more possibilities, and then choose the one that is most going to nourish not just you, but everyone involved. What would that be like?

Maren Oslac: 20:36

We forget that the brain is a muscle, and that neural networks that you know, Joe Dispenza has got some great work on this, that the neural networks...what I think he says... what fires together, wires together. So when you have a reaction, it triggers a whole series of neural networks that lead to more reaction and more reaction to a specific thing that you are used to, and then dumps all the chemicals into your system. So there's a physical reason that we're having those reactions, and the way to stop it is to literally, like, you said... Stop, go, okay, stop. I recognize that that is just a reaction. It's not real. It's not true. It's just a reaction, and it's triggered all of this stuff in my brain. So the power of practicing, again, I'm going to use one of the things that you all you say all the time, which is, we practice something when we don't need it, so it's there for us when we do. So the power of practicing using our imagination to create stories is so that when we need it to get us out of the fire that drama, it's there for us, and it's so powerful because our brains are muscles and building that muscle for alternatives, for a higher story, is so essential.

Stephanie Allen: 22:10

It's so beautiful. It's like I said, it's not an easy practice, but I can guarantee you it'll open up possibilities for and when I say the word intimacy, I'm talking about deep realization of who you are and who the other person that you are in relationship with can be too and there's more love that's possible.

Maren Oslac: 22:34

I will also say that it's a gentler way, and we're in such a place right now of harshness with ourselves, with each other in the world, and we do need some gentler ways, some safer ways, some internal place where we feel like we can rest, where we can be safe. And that's what this creates for ourselves. It's the internal place of, oh, that's my safe place. The good news is you get to create it for yourself. So it's really powerful.

Stephanie Allen: 23:18

Very much so, so healing on the right side of the brain. Allow yourself to be creative and imaginative. Slow down, drop in, feel what you're feeling that's going to heal it, and then be the witness of this little triangle that's going on inside yourself. like, which one are you acting out on? Which one is the most common that you do? And what are you looking for? And can you evoke that from within yourself, to just be, you know, creative, to come up with five different new scenarios of being able to see and be in this relationship with oneself and with another only good will come, I can guarantee you, from that.

Maren Oslac: 23:56

I can guarantee that too. And if you want to call us on that, please do because we want to talk to you about it. We have proof that this is this way works. Remember that our 2025, Co-Creation Circle is now open. So if you're interested in pursuing this type of stuff, of looking at the world from a completely different lens, having more grace in your life, then we would invite you to come and join us. You can check out all the information on our website www.tslp.life and it's got a lot more than I can share with you right here. So please do contact us with any questions that you have. Remember that or maybe you don't know... our listeners are now actually interviewing us and asking us questions about...what did you mean when you said this or could you go more deeply into that? So if you have a question that came up during this podcast, let us know, we would love to talk to you about it.

Stephanie Allen: 25:05

And come play with us!

Maren Oslac: 25:07

I love it. Let's be playful together. We'll talk to you all next week. Thanks for listening.

Stephanie Allen: 25:23

And that wraps up another episode of The Soulful Leader Podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen

Maren Oslac: 25:29

and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website, at www.thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com

Stephanie Allen: 25:40

Until next time...