Play - the Leadership Skill for 2025

As humans we’ve downplayed, or completely ignored, two essential life skills: playfulness and intentionality. As leaders, we are completely missing the boat. Adding lightness to our lives is the skill we most need to cultivate.

In this week’s podcast, Maren and Stephanie along with their team members, Dave and Lori share the crux of soulful leadership - leadership that heralds play, imagination and positivity - each from their unique perspectives.

“This is what has brought me into the soulful leader realm. Is matching with people that are similar and heart like minded and that want to lead with integrity and intention” ~ Lori

Covering everything from Positive Psychology to emotional regulation and intelligence; from the impact of nature/surroundings to the benefits of community and shared experiences; the thread that runs through all of it is the open sharing of both experiences and practices.

This is an engaging, insightful episode filled with practical ideas as well as questions that will push you to an even better 2025 and beyond. Questions like: “How are you going to lighten up?” And “Where does the play fit in your life for this year?”

Please let us know your relationship to these questions - and share our podcast with a leader that would benefit from ‘lightening-up’

• 00:31 Changing of the guard: lightness in business
• 04:55 Are you the person you wanted to become?
• 09:55 Emotional Intelligence or Emotional Health
• 15:59 Issues in our Tissues
• 19:26 Going to the past to fix it
• 24:52 What is your anchor?
  • 25:41 Dave - shifting mindsets with play and imagination
  • 32:40 Lori - anchoring through nature and awareness
  • 36:50 Stephanie - leadership as a path
• 39:37 What’s calling in 2025

LINKS

32:12 Positive Intelligence

40:11 Podcast 176 Interview with Mark Silver

TRANSCRIPT

YouTube Video

Please share your insights and questions in one of our Soulful Leaders groups:

Facebook Group

LinkedIn Group

Get all the latest episodes, news and updates directly to your inbox. Subscribe here. TheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com

Watch the podcasts on our YouTube Channel: @Soulful Leaders

Transcript

Stephanie Allen: 0:04

In a world where we have everything and it's still not enough, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Maren Oslac: 0:10

Deep inside you know there's more to life. You're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper, more meaningful life that's calling you.

Stephanie Allen: 0:19

That's what we invite you to explore with us. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen and

Maren Oslac: 0:25

Maren Oslac and this is The Soulful Leader Podcast.

Stephanie Allen: 0:30

Yay!

Maren Oslac: 0:31

Welcome back to The Soulful Leader Podcast, and welcome to 2025. We're super excited today because one of the things that Stephanie and I are very present to is the changing of the guard, if you will, into a more... everything has been so serious and very heavy in our world. And one of the things that we've been working with is that feminine aspect of play. And so what we decided we wanted to do for our first podcast of the year is invite some of our team members on, so you'll get to meet a couple of our team members and talk about what it means for us as soulful leaders to come from a place of being a little bit lighter. From that, how do we bring lightness into our lives, into the lives of our teams, into the lives of our families, and what does that mean for us as leaders?

Stephanie Allen: 1:31

I think this is a really great, poignant question, because for myself, when I think of play sometimes I, you know, I've been told it's just like, I'm winging it. You're just kind of farting around, you know? And unfortunately, it's like we tend to throw out the playfulness and the light heartedness and lose the intentionality of why we're here. And I think there's a way that we can, we can do both.(And I'm laughing like Maren, like going around that screen. I'm like, Oh my gosh, everyone's moving.)

Maren Oslac: 2:05

(I'm playing with the video... speaking of playing.)

Stephanie Allen: 2:10

So, we have some really playful team members, so we invited them on, and I'd love to introduce you, because I'm super excited. Dave, who has been a, Super Dave, who has been with me on a team for like, almost 10 years now and has a very playful, silly way of being and yet very intentional, very, you know, moving towards the goal getting things happen. And I am super excited. So we want to introduce you and find out a little bit more about you and what, what, how you stay lighthearted and intentional. And then we also have wonderful Lori. Lori is new with us in the last year, and is doing a lot of the transcribing of our Soulful Leaders, and has come to to me a couple years ago, and I just, I find you so delightful and so curious and and I don't want to say childish, it's like childlike wonder, like... I wonder, and I wonder what, and I wonder if this... and I just think you also bring such a lovely light heartedness. So I want to welcome both of you and super excited.

Dave: 3:13

Awesome. Thank you very much. Yeah, you just reminded me it's been, it's been, gotta be close to 10 years now that that we've been working together, or I've been working with you on certain projects over the many years, and doing all kinds of fun things, and none of which involve podcast production, but now I'm Your Podcast Producer, and, you know, having fun With that, and we, we've got a lot of episodes under our belts, and it's, it's, it's been a awesome for me, because I get exposed to all that goodness that you're, you guys are creating and putting out there every, every, uh, every podcast. And, you know, so I'm, I'm very, very pleased, because I know, like I'm kind of jumping the ship here a little bit. But the whole thing about working with this material that you guys produce is it's transforming who I am. I'm not the same guy I was 10 years ago when we first met. But being exposed and being I mean, you become a part of your environment, right? And what a great environment to become a part of. So, yeah, very, very happy to be here.

Stephanie Allen: 4:28

That is so exciting, Dave. I mean, I think what you said is like, you know, you're not the same person as you were. I don't think I am either. I know I've said that to Maren, no one is, but it's, it's been an intentional and yet playful unfolding, hasn't it? Oh,

Dave: 4:46

very playful, very intentional and very encouraging and very inspirational. I mean, every positive word you can think of, it's all in there. So

Maren Oslac: 4:56

our teacher says something that's like unless you're choosing your destiny, you'll be living your fate. And I do think that most people will look back over their 10 years and be like, Wow, I'm not the same person I was 10 years ago. What I, the question that I have is, is this the person you wanted to become? Did you do it? So we keep using the word intentionality, and when I think about for that for myself, that's the quote that comes into my head. Is from our teacher of like, am I choosing each day, each moment, who I want to become, and what does that mean for me? And so when I was listening to you, Dave, that's what I heard. Was like, I you know, like, you become your, the people. What is that quote? You become the sum total of the five people that that you're with. And, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like, yeah, who are you choosing to be around? And the fact that, like, I know I'm choosing to be around you guys, which excites me, and I think that's what Stephanie was pointing to, is like, wow, I've changed a lot too, and it's not, it's because of being around you guys.

Dave: 6:02

I agree, yeah, absolutely. I think, I think sometimes the intentionality is is very, even the intentionality is intentional in that you've set the intention that you're very consciously making that decision. But a lot of times it's just who you want to be inside in your heart of hearts. And so you naturally flow in that direction, and you naturally cling to those kind of people, and you naturally absorb so there are people in your life that that you know they suck the energy out of your life, and there are people in your life that inject energy into your life, and you naturally want to be with people that are full of energy, full of wisdom, and giving you and feeding your soul with all of that goodness, but you're doing it back. It's a two way street. It's not that you're you're absorbing it all and not reciprocating it. It really is a symbiotic relationship between the two or three or four or five, however, many people are in your circle of influence or your immediate circle of influence, right?

Stephanie Allen: 7:12

Yeah, we feed each other, don't we? Yeah, we

Dave: 7:15

do. We do. And I've seen the same thing from Lori too. I know a little bit about her past too, with what she's been doing, and she's very much of a like a giver and a same kind of thing with her energy, for sure.

Lori Holtz: 7:30

Thank you, Dave. I think that that's a good starting point for me to consider. Is, this is what has brought me into the soulful leader realm. Is matching with people that are similar and heart like minded and that want to lead with integrity and intention, you know, over over ego and control and and I've had a lot of great- various experiences of my life that has solidified my my want and my purpose for seeking out people and situations that are going to support not only ourselves and the people that we get to either lead or work alongside with, that we're also going to ripple out into this, this much needed world And realm of being with people in a good way and and leading from your from your heart, you know, we talk about being light, and what makes this light, and the work of being light in this life is is tough work. You know, it's very, it's very, you have to be very intentional and to always be mindful and and you have to take care of your emotional health, in in not just your physical health, but your emotional health is so, so important. And so, yeah, so that just it leads me to that what's makes us light and and I have, you know, some things that I think about, and heaviness comes to me a lot is this, you know, when what makes you heavy in this life is just right on the flip side of what you two are saying about making it fun and creative when things get heavy, that's really When we need to make things fun and light, and Maren and Stephanie got such a good take on it. You know, it's a good follow you are great follow through people for me to have met when I did, and to join, to join your, your, your, your, I guess, your revolution, evolution, intentionality, that yes. So very happy to be here and sharing in this experience and supporting the work that you both do very much in alignment with what's needed.

Maren Oslac: 9:55

So you have a lot of experience in in working with lots of different types of leadership teams, and when you say, I'm going to point to the emotional health that you were talking about, because I'm hearing more and more people recognize that, which makes me very happy. Because it seems like until, you know, the last maybe five or 10 years, it's all been about the outer and people are starting to realize that there's a whole inner component. And as as you have worked through over the years with different teams, what have you noticed around that? That because I think that that's really intimately connected to whether you feel overly heavy or you can actually lighten up. And, you know, kind of the things that we're talking about,

Lori Holtz: 10:48

are you speaking more to, like the emotional intelligence part or the emotional health?

Maren Oslac: 10:54

What do you want to chat about?

Lori Holtz: 10:57

Because there's, you know, the two are, for me, obviously interlinked. You know, when you when you have a good foundation for being healthy emotionally - like I just watched a video, a parenting video the other day, and it talked about the difference that it makes when we teach kids how to emotionally regulate themselves, when a difference it makes. And, you know, I think about some of the temper tantrums that I've seen at my workplaces and thinking, Oh, that might have been helpful. And I think we all can speak to those stories of, you know, not being served as well in in how we are parented around our feelings, because it's, it's multi generational. It just, it is what it is, but, but you tie that in with intelligence too. Like, seriously, I didn't think I was smart until I was, like, intelligent, smart until I was in my 30s, because I didn't enjoy academics at all. I didn't learn well that way. And what I discovered is, is that if you have emotional intelligence, and some people have higher, lower, I think, like intellectual intelligence, intelligence, if there was a way to measure it, that's not good or bad, it just is on a scale. I think when you focus on emotional intelligence as well, because we can always improve those two things in the workplace, it would change the workplace if people had the ability to know how to regulate themselves, and they had the mindset and the want to become a little bit smarter with their feelings like, you know, just be even learning skills like how to have a fight fairly. Wouldn't that be great, you know, yeah,

Stephanie Allen: 12:45

to be you, how to actually be okay in conflict how and stay present. Yeah, I want to even ask you one more question about emotional regulation, because it is part of a and maybe even some of the things that both you and Dave and all of us that do to help emotionally regulate ourselves. Because I think a lot of times, at least, what I would, had learned, what I thought was emotional regulation, would be stuff your emotions. This is not a place to feel like if you're going to do that, you go home and or you go get a therapist. But this is, you know, grow up, you know, tough it out. That seems like that. That's that's a hard place of just like, you know, take your emotions and put them on shelf over here instead of saying, maybe there's another way. It's obviously not. I'm gonna, like, blow up and have a meltdown, like the temper tantrum, which happens at work time, you know, like, Okay, I'm working with a five year old right now, and they're, they didn't get their candy and, and I've been that way too. Like, I've been that way too. And so, yeah, tell me a little bit more. Lori, Dave, you know how, how you work with that? Like, what do you do? What's your what's your practice, what's your presence, that you do when it gets emotionally uncomfortable?

Dave: 14:04

I just have to, I just sorry. I just have to produce one of the one of the podcasts, and it kind of puts me right back where I belong. Sorry, go ahead Lori.

Lori Holtz: 14:14

I was gonna say, if you had something, Dave, I'd be happy to let you go. But in the meantime, what do I do? I I was, I'm a parent. I mean, she's, she's 30 now, but I always kind of go back to those basics. And I think, you know, like you said there, I'm dealing with a five year old right now. There's obviously a lot going on that I can't respond to. And even if I've become reactive, it would always come back to just having the idea that this isn't about me. This is something that they're obviously experiencing, and kind of, you know, be polite and and then, and then circle back if that's needed or address it in the moment. But it always comes with and this was my secret tip. This was my number one parenting, yes, success, and it works for all of my relationships. Acknowledge people. Just acknowledge them. You know, we want to be seen. I mean, there's that quote, We want to be seen. We want to be heard. And even if it's coming out sideways, it's still important to acknowledge so just a skill of saying back, I can see that you're really upset right now, or I'm sorry that if upset you, or just whatever feels good in the moment to say, but as long as they have that flicker of, oh, okay, I'm getting acknowledged here, then you then you know that you've got a more common place to come from,

Stephanie Allen: 15:41

yeah? Instead of shaming it right, like you're really upset, this isn't a good place, you need to just take this somewhere else that would be shaming or ignoring it. Yeah, that's

Dave: 15:52

so true. That's That's brilliant. I like that very much. Yeah, yeah.

Stephanie Allen: 16:00

We ignore it in ourselves. And so, you know, we ignore it, which is another way of stuffing it. I'll just ignore this. It'll go away, but it doesn't. It gets locked into our tissues. And I always say, you know, then, then we have issues in our tissues, you know. And then, you know, if we don't, if we don't voice it, if we don't, you know, we forget about it. And then it becomes buried into our unconscious, and we don't know why we feel off. We don't know why things aren't working well. We don't know why all of a sudden we start having stomach aches or headaches or some sort of physical pain, and we're like, I don't know. I didn't I didn't hurt myself, but I woke up and my knee hurts. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I just rolled over in bed. That's my own, you know. Instead of saying, maybe, maybe there's something in there that's that's ready and safe enough to come out, can I, can I work with this? And I'm bringing this in, because I think, as you say, Dave, you mentioned this too, is that it's like having a culture, a workplace culture, like, like, anything heals when we have a healthy environment. And there's a big talk about, you know, cultures in our in our workplaces, or in our in our communities or in our families. And it's like, if there isn't a culture of feeling safe that okay, I can address this with somebody I feel safe. They're not going to shame me or blame me. They can hold the space to really hear what I'm going through. And just like you said, Lori, acknowledge me. I think this is so key. And like, even like, I'm curious with the two of you. Like, how did you how did you pick? Did you pick the workplace, or did it find you? I'm curious from your perspective, because I have a perspective, but I'm curious what your perspective is.

Dave: 17:39

So I think the world is conspiring in my favor, personally. And I think for most people, they're pretty much getting what they what they ask for. So if your, if your self talk, if your, if the things that are going on in your head are negative, you're, you're attracting that to you. And if you're, if you're being positive and you're, you're very good about how you deal with adversity and what you expect to happen, or how you expect to fall in it and come out smelling like roses, well, that's what's going to happen. You're going to create that reality, because that's what you're thinking, that's what you're intending. So that's what I was saying earlier. Sometimes your intentions are intentional, and sometimes they're not, and when they're not intentional, it's because of what you're saying to yourself, what you're thinking in your head, the thoughts that you have on a regular basis. And there's a whole, there's a I mean, there's so many ways of dealing with that, to get out of that cycle if you do tend to be that kind of a negative person that has that issue. So really, you do change who you are, and then you start really, everything is going great because wonderful things keep happening to you. The world

Stephanie Allen: 18:58

I love that I love what you're saying with that definitely

Dave: 19:01

out to is conspiring in my favor and your favor and everybody's favor, if that's how they see it. The whole thing about the the most important decision you have to make is whether you whether or not you live in a friendly universe. That was from one of your podcasts recently. I love that quote from Einstein, definitely.

Maren Oslac: 19:26

Yeah, I found that that also, you know, like we're talking about emotional regulation and emotional intelligence. And thank you, Lori, for actually bringing up the fact that those are two different things. They're related and they are, they are two different things. And I think oftentimes that we go to our past and think we have to fix ourselves, and there is a certain amount of working through past issues that needs to happen, and when you decide that you live in a friendly universe, and you know where you're going, you you actually are holding your intentionality, like really consciously and your attention on your intention. It's amazing how much of that stuff falls away that allows you to be lighter and allows you to it's like it it processes without you having to go through it again to re you know, it's like oftentimes Stephanie will talk about like we, we re injure ourselves, trying to go back through the issues, right, the issues in our tissues, instead of just being able to let it go. And how powerful it would be for us to get to the place where, okay, if we need to go through it, great. And how much of it do we actually not need to go through again? And we can just allow it, to let it go. Yeah,

Stephanie Allen: 20:50

it becomes a habit of suffering on our suffering, essentially, yeah, you know, we get something out of it. And we say, you know, if you can't let something go, you know, emotional that's a drug, man, I'll tell you, you get emotionally connected to something, and if you're not ready or willing to let something go, then you're probably addicted to something.

Maren Oslac: 21:17

Yeah, well, there's a reason, like you said, there's something that we get out of it, there's a reward. And so yeah, becoming right, becoming aware, aware of what, what is the reward that I actually get out of that? Because we do know what we need to do in order to change something, and oftentimes we're just not ready or willing or able to do it, because we're still getting so much of a reward out of the old way of

Stephanie Allen: 21:42

Yeah, yeah. Like, for example, I always say doing it. it's like, you know, when you're emotionally irregulated, you're going to get attention, outward attention, probably not in the way that you want it most times. And inward attention, meaning it's going to give you that internal drug, that that tonic, it's not even a tonic. It's like a cocktail,

Maren Oslac: 22:06

yes, a cocktail of drugs. Exactly

Stephanie Allen: 22:08

Drugs. Yeah, so. But I often will say, Well, what's what's that costing you? Peace of mind, relationships, your job, health? Like, there's a lot of costs that, you know, there's a lot of things you're sacrificing, and is that truly what you want to sacrifice in order to get attention or in order to get a high and feel lighter? Is there another way?

Maren Oslac: 22:34

Yeah, because you end up on that high and so you might feel lighter, it just is. It's a false lightness, because it's not sustainable. You end up on a roller coaster, right? So it's just like any other addiction. We think that it's that addictions are only outer and we don't realize that the inner cocktail, like the the drugs you were talking about, you're actually mentioning the inner cocktail of drugs, of the dopamine and the serotonin and all of the things that kick in when we have the adrenaline rush, right? So we put ourselves on that. And I love what Dave was saying earlier, because when you can self regulate, when you can actually get to that point of 'you know what things are going well, and I don't need the drama to make it happen,

Dave: 23:25

good there,

Maren Oslac: 23:26

right? And then you can let, that's where I was talking about. It's like, then you can let some of that stuff go and not have to re experience it to get the cocktail of of drugs and emotions going in your system, right? And you can actually have a, you know, it's not the highs and lows are not bad, again, not bad, good, bad, right, wrong. It just is. Do we need to have such highs and such lows? It can be a a positive, ongoing, you know, ups and downs on on a slight like a hill instead of a mountain.

Stephanie Allen: 24:05

Definitely. Yeah, yeah. And I think I kind of have the visual of walking on the razor's edge right, like you're trying to maintain this balance, this, this, and I don't want to say straight line, but it's like, it's like you're, you're a witness to both the highs and the lows without ricocheting into one or the other. That doesn't mean you don't feel them. You might feel them fully, but there's an anchor in your center, and that's to me, is that light heartedness of like when I can let go that I'm responsible for everything and that it must be my fault and I can't do this, you know? Or whatever, all that that, like Dave was saying, that inner narrative, that's when I get ricocheted off into one way or the other, or, Oh, I'm so great. I'm so awesome. My life is wonderful. You know, it's, then I'm ping ponging. But if I can hold that center is that, you know, I'm, I'm a spiritual being, having a human moment here, right now, and there's something greater beyond me, like, what, what Einstein says, you know, I'm part of a friendly universe, and I'm more than just my emotional body. I'm more than just my mental So, and I'm more than my physical so there's a reason I'm being here. What might this be teaching me? Then I have that anchor, and I'm curious as to what, when I say,'have an anchor', like, for those that are listening to like, what is your anchor? What is it that that allows you to stay present to the emotional uncertainties and the roller coasters, but at the same time, has that anchor of love and kindness and peace within yourself? What is it? What is that practice? And I'm asking you all here too, like Lori and Dave and Maren, what is that anchor for you?

Dave: 25:38

You know, sometimes you have to get you have to go through a bad time, or you have to hurt in order to be motivated to make things better, so you don't have to hurt to make things better. But when you're comfortable, you tend to coast, and there's no reason to make things better because you're fine, right? But when things hurt, when you get into a that kind of a dark part of your life, or something where things aren't going well, or at least you don't think they are, and you again, you're creating your reality. So you start thinking the dark thoughts, and you're creating more and more of it. Well, what you're end, what you end up doing is you're either going to go fight or flight, you're going to go one way or the other, and, and, and hopefully you don't go down. You start, you realize you've hit bottom, or you're you're close to the bottom, and it's time to turn your life around. And I know this happens to a lot of people. It's very common in I mean, everybody has the best of times and the worst of times in their lifetime, hopefully, because you really need those extremes. But when you're ready to get out of your hole and when you're ready to make things better, or even wherever you are, it doesn't have to be in a hole to make things better. We all aspire to be better. Then it becomes important how you think, where you're at, where you're going, and to recognize that with intentionality. And again, I go back to the self talk and your inner narrative. Make it make it better. Make it better. And go, go in that direction. And there's so many resources like this podcast that are out there for that exact reason. So it's not like it's hard to find, it's just, it's just a question of aiming in that direction.

Maren Oslac: 27:33

So that's what you do, is you tune into the people who are helping along those lines of either a podcast or a YouTube video or something that, like you know from your own experience of when I tune that, it changes my thoughts. It changes the person that I am and I can I can get out of my negative self talk, or whatever, whatever hole I've dug for myself or or life has thrown at me, right, right?

Stephanie Allen: 28:02

Yes, yeah. I'm also hearing you too, Dave, saying, you know that there's a self reflection moment of, like, where you stop and you just look inward and going, Okay, what am I thinking right now? That this is crazy. Like, I hear that, that inward reflection in you, yeah, yep, that's your anchor. Like, you turn in, go, Okay, what's going on here? What's What's this calling me and and what am I? What am I thinking or believing right now, right?

Dave: 28:27

And it's the intentionality of changing that, of turning that around. If you don't like what you're thinking, if you don't like what you're saying, you intentionally, you you stop like you literally cut it right off. And you say, I'm going to change this, and even if it sounds crazy. And in fact, it's even better. If it does sound crazy, the funnier it sounds, or the most, the more ridiculous it sounds. Think or say the exact opposite of whatever negative thought you just had, and go in that totally different direction. Just do it and you totally negates the whole emotional drag though, the whole drama of the negative situation, whether it's somebody road rage, somebody really, you know, drives you crazy, literally speaking, drives you crazy. And you, you, you know, everybody gets that, or they want to knock the guy off the road or something like that. That happens a lot, actually, especially, you know, daily commuters. And so instead of having that thought, change it completely or turn it around 100% and the the crazier it sounds, the better. And don't blame yourself for what happened, and don't blame them for what happened. Just just find a way to, what's the exact opposite of what I was just going to say, or what I was just going to think, or what I was just, you know, wherever I was going with my thoughts? and that changes the whole perspective. But it it's really when you reflect on yourself and how much you love yourself, how much you believe in yourself. How much you think you're worth. You know, self worth, self, love, self everything, all of that, and everything that you own, and everything that everyone you talk to, and all your friends and everybody, it's just everything about your life can be turned around quite easily. And that's that's talking about anchors. That's what I did to get myself out of my dark spot. But also I continued to do that, and I still notice it today. Every now and again, something creeps in, but I it's, it's more or less a habit to go to the positive instead of the negative for any given situation, I'm

Stephanie Allen: 30:40

the big point. Now, go ahead, I was gonna say You're like an inner ninja,

Dave: 30:45

yeah, inner ninja, exactly. But it all comes with practice, and it doesn't take long.

Maren Oslac: 30:50

And what I want to point out is that you use the word I go to the positive. I'm going to use a slightly different word. You go to the playful, and that's what we started with. And one of the things, and it does take practice to be playful, we're trained out of it. And it takes imagination. One of the things that Stephanie talks a lot about is the fact that healing happens on the right side of the brain, and that's the creative, the imaginative, the playful place and and Dave, you're you're beautiful at that. Part of the reason that we wanted to have you on today. And I think that people heard that, and you could hear that and just like, Okay, I think the exact opposite, even understanding what the exact opposite is, that takes imagination, and

Dave: 31:32

yeah, it does, actually it does.

Maren Oslac: 31:34

It really does. And that's a great exercise for us going into this next year of like, what might it be like, just playing with what is the opposite of, of whatever's going on? Yeah? Yeah. So thanks for that, yeah?

Stephanie Allen: 31:50

Well, well said Maren, like, instead of saying, because we can be positive and not really feel like, I'm looking at Lori, who's saying, you know, it's time to have that emotional regulation, that emotional intelligence. We can, we can positivity ourselves, right out of feeling and healing, too. And so I'm glad you made that, that awareness, Maren, with Dave, is that, yeah, he, you actually, Dave, you go to the playfulness that kind of does a pattern interrupt in your brain, exactly, and you laugh. It's like, Ha, you know, it's like the superhero, superhero, Dave comes in and, and I'm sure it's like this complete, creative, chaotic comic strip inside your head that's like busting through. But it's like, yeah, yeah. I think that's a really, real key point. Thank you.

Dave: 32:37

Actually, yeah.

Maren Oslac: 32:40

So Lori, is there something that you go to do you have a go to anchor, to kind of short circuit, or change the pattern that's going on?

Lori Holtz: 32:52

Well, I love what Dave said, and I highly relate to it. I've just been through a book called Positive Intelligence, and I'm gonna gap out it that the author's name, but I can follow up with you if you need it. But he talked about having the judger here, and then the sage kind of here, and it's the judge that kind of puts all of these thoughts into your head, and is the first one to come up. And I firmly believe that I know our typical ego response to anything is usually like shields up and, but just to allow that sage voice to come in and to have that playfulness come in. And what I love about an anchor, for me is is that I don't feel like I have a one-all-done-all because they don't always fit in every situation. Because my one-all-and-done-all is nature and being out in nature and being able to be active in nature, whether it's like small walk or a good climb, nature immediately soothes everything in me and grounds me. But, you know, the reality is that I can't always have it. So I like having, you know, several things that I can turn to. I was just experiencing a situation now with family and not enjoying their conversation too much, and I thought, oh, geez, what do I do for myself right now? Because I want to feel good, and I want to feel grounded and and it was a simple turning to the sun, my face to the sun, and just breathing in in a moment. So sometimes they have to come up on the fly, but knowing that I have the ability to be anchored is what saves me. That's a good thing. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you.

Maren Oslac: 34:53

I love hearing other people what they what they do, and early in the conversation, Dave, you use the word things happen naturally, and I find that when we can really listen to our wisdom, it does happen naturally, and yet we're not taught to listen to our wisdom. So when we can emulate somebody else, like you have a great practice that you have, and you know, like what Lori just shared, we start to be able to tune into ourselves more and go, Oh, that might be something, even if I take exactly what you did and then I do it for a little bit, and then I realize, oh, wait, my version is a little bit different, or that didn't work for me. What else might work for me? And there's a playful aspect to that too. And as adults, we're in this, we get stuck in this, right, wrong, good, bad, of like, Oh, I did it wrong. It didn't work for me. I did it wrong. I tried Dave's thing. It didn't work for me. I did it wrong. And instead of doing that, instead of going to that place of that didn't work for me, how else could I play with it? Yeah, and allowing ourselves that space. Yeah,

Dave: 36:02

perfect. Yeah. Well, Said, everybody's different, for sure, and everybody's story is different. Everybody's background is different, and where everybody's going is different, yeah, so everything behind you and everything in front of you is all different. And so what works for me may not work for you exactly the same way, but it's the concept and find, find your sun to face, whatever, whatever it is that you want to do to get out of it, the just the fact that you're looking for it, you're already in the right direction. You're already on the right path if you're consciously starting to look for how can I interrupt that pattern? How can I how can I go in that direction. How can I face the sun, or whatever it is that? I mean, that's beautiful. I love that nature, the whole thing, yeah, everybody, that's good, yeah.

Stephanie Allen: 36:50

I think when we all come together too and we share our own inner processes, but whether you know where we're stuck and where it's flowing, we learn, not only for ourselves, like we go, oh yeah, that's right. Because when someone asks a question, hey, how do you? How do you, where's your anchor? How do you find your anchor? That makes you self reflect, it makes you actually kind of go and go, How do I self reflect? What? What does that mean? What does that anchor and and then, when you share it, you're not only anchoring it at a deeper level for yourself, again, you're actually distilling it. You're giving those that are in your environment an opportunity to hear a different way that they can then kind of adopt into their life in their own unique way. And this is why I say this, that we do need each other. And in my in my cultural upbringing, of what I've learned is that to be a leader, you had to have control. You don't let it other people, you know, take control. And I think that is a bunch of crap. For me, doesn't work. It's like, I never say people work for me. I say we will work together, and we all it's like saying my right arm is better than my left arm, or, you know, my my feet are better than my hands. I'm like, That's ridiculous. They all have different they all have different, you know, purposes for I need them for different things. And when we all work together, is when we have the most holistic, full possibility. And that's how I see leadership, is that really, my anchor is like how I lead myself, is how I lead other people, and how I allow myself to be led. And I if I can stay curious and wonder that there is actually something greater, the friendly universe, the the loving, the loving God, or whatever you know, someone else that believes in, but I believe in God, in the universe, a loving being that is actually put me in this body for a reason, and brought people into my life for a reason, and if I stay curious and wonder about that in the friendly universe, and it becomes playful, I become, oh, this is interesting. I wonder what's gonna happen next, and how can we do this, and what has this person brought me? And what have I brought them? And what could happen together? And that's how I see us as a team. Is that Wow? Like, why would I ever want to do it alone. Seriously, it's a heck of a lot more fun, like a lot more and a lot more. Well, not only is it is it easier, in some ways, I'm not saying it's easy, because there's a lot of inner work that I have to do to work with that, but it actually is easier and surprisingly productive and and uplifting that I wouldn't have been able to do on my own, right? That makes sense?

Dave: 39:27

Well, the fun, the fun in life, is that we can all get along and play in the same sandbox together, right? As opposed to being alone.

Maren Oslac: 39:36

Yeah, I absolutely love this conversation, and I hate to cut it short, and we are running out of time, so I'm going to ask for you for this coming year, 30 seconds or less, what is something that you are taking forward with you into this coming year, to either process through or. Uh, move into or, you know, like, what really is calling you for this coming year? 30 seconds or less. Lori on the spot. I

Lori Holtz: 40:11

think it was your latest podcast, 175 where Stephanie said something to the effect of we may not be a hired leader in our in our realm right now, but we are all leaders from from where we are, and I've always believed that. So this is the year of really strong leadership for me to bring that soulful aspect and getting along well, aspect to leadership.

Maren Oslac: 40:42

I love that. And you're from the future, because that's actually going to be our next podcast. So stay tuned, because you just got a preview into podcast 176 Awesome,

Lori Holtz: 40:56

awesome, awesome.

Maren Oslac: 40:57

Dave, something for you?

Dave: 40:59

We talked we just on this podcast. So far, we've talked about emotional intelligence, we've talked about intellectual intelligence, We've even talked about Positive Intelligence. I'm going very much into 2025, and probably the rest of my life with artificial intelligence as my focus. This is a new thing for me, and it's a big change. It's a whole new vocation, everything. So that's my big thing going forward. It's my intention for the new year. It's my intention for this new year, I should say, and so on and so forth. I am not going to look back at my old stuff anymore. I realized that everything I've done so far, I've had so many different kinds of jobs, and they all culminate, and they all come together, and they all belong in the AI world. And so this is like a big revelation for me right now, as as we're as I'm talking to you, and so I think my 30 seconds are almost up, but yeah, I'm walking down that road because it's fun. So

Stephanie Allen: 42:09

you're embracing new technology to support your unfolding. Yeah,

Maren Oslac: 42:14

love it. Stephanie, how about you?

Stephanie Allen: 42:17

Yeah, I'm gonna practice. I'm practicing lightning up and letting go, and that I don't have to figure everything out. And that old saying of, like, don't just do something, you know, don't just sit there. Do something. I'm reversing it, like what Dave said earlier, don't just, you know, do something, just sit there. And because the best things that have happened to me have come into my life, and so I want to have more of a presence of noticing when something good is coming into my life, so I can really, truly receive it and grow, grow with it and from it

Maren Oslac: 42:51

beautiful. I think, yeah, for myself, it's being present to the rhythms. It's like I I've become more and more knowing, like that internal knowing, not just like, Oh, I know that, but like when you really feel something of being in tune with the cycles, like I am a part of nature. And so all of her cycles are cycles that I also experience. And no matter how much I try to separate myself that with, from that, with, like, artificial light and artificial this, and artificial that, like I still am part of nature. So there's an impact, and there's an influence, and there's a there's an integration. So I'm going to say, for me, this coming year is about integrating even further into those cycles, and really like being present to them. Awesome. This has been such a joy. Like I said, I could chat with you guys forever, and luckily for me, I get to. We will be back in two weeks with our next podcast, which you got a preview from Lori. Thank you very much. So we'll look forward to that. And please do me a favor and do let us know. What are your intentions for this coming year? How are you going to lighten up? Where does the play fit in your life for this year? Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you in two weeks on the soulful leader podcast.

Stephanie Allen: 44:27

And that wraps up another episode of the soulful leader Podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen

Maren Oslac: 44:33

and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website, at TheSoulfulLeaderPodcast.com

Stephanie Allen: 44:43

Until next time you.