Mel Robbins’ “Let Them” - Two Opposing Views

Mel Robbins has caught the nation’s attention with her ‘Let Them’ Theory. It’s simple, it’s empowering and it’s not as one-size-fits-all as people want to make it.

This week, Stephanie and Maren bring opposing views on “Let Them”, which opens up a world of discussions and several thought provoking examples. The essential aspect for leaders is how they use their own experience of sitting on opposite sides of the fence to uplevel the traditional right/wrong/good/bad argument to a higher place of inspiration.

Covering everything from understanding when ‘Let Them’ is your best path (and when it’s not, hint: if your decision is a reaction, it’s not your best path), to how to move from reaction to inspiration, today’s podcast is filled with gold.

People are finally learning not to take things personally or try to control every little thing (and person) in life, and applying ‘let them’ everywhere also has a downside. Instead of making it right or wrong, Maren & Stephanie explore a little microcosm that beautifully illustrates how to step into a higher option.

“We're so literal that we don't tend to make space for another perspective or another thought, and if there is any space, we tend to fill it with assumptions.” ~ Stephanie J. Allen

• 00:31 Let Them, blessing or excuse?
• 05:36 Highest possibility
• 09:10 Breaking the conditioning
• 12:58 Knowing what’s mine to do
• 16:20 From Reaction to Inspiration
• 22:07 Making the space necessary
• 26:13 It’s a practice
• 31:29 People meet you where you are

“Most of the time, people stop being reactive because I'm not being reactive, because I'm coming from inspiration instead. And that is a really cool place to be.” ~ Maren Oslac

TRANSCRIPT

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Transcript

Stephanie Allen: 0:04

In a world where we have everything and it's still not enough, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Maren Oslac: 0:10

Deep inside you know, there's more to life. You're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper, more meaningful life that's calling you. That's what we invite you to explore with us. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac, and this is The Soulful Leader Podcast.

Stephanie Allen: 0:30

Yay! Hi. Welcome to The Soulful Leader Podcast. I'm here with Maren, and I really want to talk about this Let Them Theory that Mel Robbins has been putting out there, which, on one level, I find it's so profound that we're finally learning not to take things personally, and that we're discovering how to surrender and to allow something to do, what it needs to do, whatever that might be. I don't know what that might be, but to start turning inward and asking yourself, what is mine to do? I know, I know there's a part in the 12 step program for adult children of alcoholics and dysfunctional families, and it's the serenity prayer. 'God grant me the serenity to accept the people I cannot change, the courage to change the one I can, and the wisdom to know that one is me' and I truly feel that that's the road less traveled is to then turn inward and go, what is mine to do, or what is, what do I need to change within myself if I'm really irritated by whatever someone is doing out there? And you know, I brought this up because I had numerous clients... numerous clients, Steph, you got to listen to The Let Them podcast. And so, you know, my good friend here, Maren. I said, Hey, Maren, we need to listen to this podcast. So, you know, this is often what we do, is we go away and we kind of do our own research, maybe reading the same book or listening to the same podcast or watching a movie or experiencing something, and then we come back together. And it's so I think it's so wonderful that sometimes we have totally different perspectives, completely radically different views on something. And when two people have radical different views, or two, you know, systems have radical views, or two countries have radical views, if we can come together in a safe place and really work it out, we actually lean into the uncomfortability, we can actually transform itand build something really healthy out of it, that it's totally different than what we are on the level that causes the issue in the first place, if that makes sense? So you know, for me, The Let Them Podcast was really profound, and it really helped so many of my clients who were really struggling with letting go of control, and, you know, wanted to fix things because they themselves, were uncomfortable with what someone was doing. And Maren, I'd love to hear your thoughts, because you had a very different reaction to it, and it was also valid. I think that's like Rumi says, you know, beyond right, doing and wrong doing is a field. I'll meet you there. And I think if we can create space for differences, that's when transformation happens.

Maren Oslac: 3:31

Absolutely and one of the interesting things... I will answer your question, and today I was talking to somebody, and she said that there was, she was just made aware of a test, kind of a trial that somebody had done where they had posted a video, but you couldn't see anything. It was just a black screen, so all you could do is listen to it. And what they did is they wanted people to write in the comments what they heard, and all the comments were different. It wasn't a transcript, right? So people were actually writing what they heard. So everything was different. And I think that speaks to what you're just talking about. Of we all hear something different because we have different backgrounds and different conditionings, and we're just in different places in our lives. So, I listened to The Mel Robbins Let Them Podcast,and what I heard was I heard the benefit of it... I also heard an excuse. I heard the potential for people abdicating their responsibility and saying, huh, not mine to do. Oh, well, you know the whole like, fuck you I don't need to do a thing, right? And it just it, it irked me that there was this massive permission being given to people like you don't have to be responsible for anything in your life. Just let them, go, whatever, right? There was some things, and it's funny because I wrote a blog post about it that night, and because I have a blog on my own website, and there were some things that showed up in my life around the same time, exactly at the same time I was listening to the podcast. And so I think the, we're meant to hear certain things so that we can then come back and talk about it and say, there's a benefit, there's also a problem with it, and what's the higher story?

Stephanie Allen: 5:50

Yeah, I think that's a real great question. Is like, not only what is the higher story, but what do we what do? Maybe it's between you and I that we have a difference of opinion, and it's like, what do we both want together? Like, what is the highest possibility that we want to go? And you're approaching it from your perspective. I'm approaching it from my perspective. We're on two totally different paths, but we want to end up at the same destination. And that doesn't mean your path is right or wrong or good or bad or correct or incorrect, nor is mine. It just means that let's look at to where we want to end up together and then work it backwards.

Maren Oslac: 6:28

Yeah. And I want to apply that same thing to the podcast itself, like even listening to it, and when I felt irked by it, I realized that there was a benefit to it as well as a problem with it, right? So, it wasn't that what she's talking about is a bad thing. I think it's fantastic and is really needed in this world. So I can actually see your side of things. And then when I shared with you why I was irked, you know, you were saying to me, it's like, Oh, I see that too, right? So we have this ability and this, I think when you were just saying, where's it taking the two of us to a higher level? I think that's what I found for me, is that one of the things that both of us want to happen is for people to be more awake and aware in their lives so that they can have the beauty and the amazingness and the joy that's meant to be ours, and especially in this day and age where we're so surrounded by like all of the issues and the problems which are very real, right? And so in that it seems like more and more people are going to well, this is right and this is wrong, that person's right and that person's wrong. So how do we help people to step to a different place, a different way of looking at it, and saying, instead of right wrong how do we all get to that higher place? And this is just like our little microcosm of exploration with that.

Stephanie Allen: 8:08

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of like, you know, when we get stuck on the facts or the literal, I use the examples, like, you know, you could be on the first floor of a building, and when you look out the window, you see the traffic from a different perspective than going up to the top floor of a high rise building, and you look down and you see the bigger picture of something, and you're like, oh, that's why, that's what's happening, right? But to be able to to be an observer in that way, that's one of the practices that I do for myself, is like I observe it from multiple levels of perspectives. I kind of use itlike a building or you're walking on the ground, versus being in a helicopter or in an airplane or even on a rocket ship. You see things. The bigger you can go, the more inclusive and diverse you can become. It's like it integrates and weaves both of them together. But we're so literal, we're so on the ground that we don't tend to make space for another perspective or another thought, and we like to fill that space with assumptions.

Maren Oslac: 9:22

Yeah, I think that having the top floor and the like, if we can go macro and then also go micro, yeah? Because one of the things that I found with the Mel Robbins podcast, one of the the issues, the challenges that I had was it's the macro. It is the macro, it's the big picture. Yes, we do need more 'let them' in our lives, because we tend to be overly controlling, because it comes from a fear, and, you know, like a training of you need to be always right. Like, then you're never right enough, and all of the things right, all of the conditioning. And so we have become a culture that tends towards control, and that never ends well.

Stephanie Allen: 10:13

No. And you know I always say ask another question is like, why are we so enmeshed into trying to control something? Is it from fear?

Maren Oslac: 10:27

So two things came up for me with the podcast of like, looking at it's so popular, why? What's the underpinning? And now we're going into the micro right now, we need to get to the itty bitty things. Because, yes, you can say that let them is important in our culture. And if you apply it to everything you know, like there's the saying that you know, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Stephanie Allen: 10:58

Yeah...

Maren Oslac: 10:59

Yeah, if all you have is permission to say let them, everything looks like I just need to let them.

Stephanie Allen: 11:09

Well and we've also been conditioned, you know, as an achiever being I mean, we are literally conditioned since childhood that we have to have the answers, and if we don't, and we're in the unknown, then we're failures. It's not a both/and. I think of that saying, you know, the early bird gets the worm, and he who hesitates is lost, right? Well, wait a minute, those two things are... they counteract, you know, counteract each other. I'm like...

Maren Oslac: 11:44

...well, and what if the late bird gets a worm too, right?

Stephanie Allen: 11:49

I mean, it's just like what if both were true, right? Can we? And I may think that makes really, a lot of people really squirrely. It's like, how can they both be true? They can't. Here's the facts, here's this. I don't know. I'm just.. I'm questing. And my practice, which I'm finding both challenging and also very rewarding, is to stay in the unknown and to practice letting go trying to figure out an answer.

Maren Oslac: 12:19

So tell me in regards to knowing when to let them and when not to because that's really kind of what it comes down to, for me, is it's a great thing to let somebody and there are also places where we need to be accountable and do what's ours to do. So how do I know the difference? That's where I get, got down to if, like, we need more practices to know the difference, and not just a, you know, like, okay, a blanket statement, right?

Stephanie Allen: 12:53

Yeah, it's either this or it's that. It can't be both, right?

Maren Oslac: 12:58

So your practice, what you're saying is your practice of being in the unknown. How does that help you to know whether you should let somebody do something, or whether it's yours to do, to step in and be the remedy?

Stephanie Allen: 13:13

You know, it's such a great question, and I think there's a lot of trial and error that I do too, but my regular practice is to keep coming back to what is, what is the world that I want to live in, like, what is the reality in the life that I want to live in? Now I can't make that happen. That's not mine to do, but I can ask myself a question of, like, what is my piece in that? What is, what is, what is the part that I can work within myself? That's that, that 12 step serenity prayer is like, I can't change anyone else, but I can change myself. So what can I work with myself? And when I'm saying that, I'm pointing to my own heart. Because, you know, yesterday, I was driving into the city, and there was a billboard that had a really nasty saying on it, and I was so freaking ticked, like, I just do want to get a spray paint and I want to, you know, take keys and scratch it out. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm having an emotional reaction to something. So to me, that's a warning when I get triggered. Yes, that's, that's my warning of saying, Okay, now it's time for the practice. So as I'm really aware of that emotional trigger, I look at myself, I'm like, okay, so what, first of all, what is making me emotionally triggered here right now? Am I in a belief system that there's a right and a wrong and a good and a bad and a correct and incorrect. And you know, if I'm in that kind of world, that's a separated world, that's a win, lose kind of world, and it allows me to then drop back in and go and wait a minute, what if I could be in an inclusive world, that is also diverse? Meaning that we can have space for each and every person's uniqueness, and that we are all working towards something really beautiful.

Maren Oslac: 15:10

So I'm going to stop you for a second, because we were raised that it's a win/lose world, right? Some people win, and some people right. So when you say an inclusive world that's possible, tell me about how that's possible. Like, like, sometimes your vision...

Stephanie Allen: 15:31

Sometimes people piss you off, because it's the very thing that creates an impetus for you to then heal something. I often look at that like, it's like, if I get into that right, wrong, good, bad, binary world, then I feel like a victim. I feel helpless. And I either, either want to fight back out of rage, or I go, oh, why bother I can't do anything. It's too big. I can't change it anyway. I might as well just stick my head in the sand and like, yeah, just let them.

Maren Oslac: 15:59

So I love this because how often we all find ourselves in one of those energies, when we're making a choice or a decision, from either one of those energies, it's coming from a lower place in our bodies,

Stephanie Allen: 16:18

and it's coming from a reaction.

Maren Oslac: 16:20

It comes from a reaction rather than an inspiration. So an inspiration is a higher place. A reaction is a lower place. And so if I am coming from a reaction and saying, 'Let them' now, it's probably going to come back and bite me in the butt somehow or another. If I can suspend and go into what you were talking about, of the unknown. I don't know, and I can actually allow myself like you did, of I see myself reacting. I recognize, first of all, you have to recognize that it's a reaction. And then you have to say, can I make space for not reacting to seeing a higher possibility, and just observe myself when I'm reacting and slow down?

Stephanie Allen: 17:11

You know how we always say, "don't just sit there, do something". I reverse that. 'Don't just do something, just sit there for a moment'. Just breathe and notice, am I reacting out of fear and control and manipulation? Or am I reacting which wouldn't be reacting, am I responding from joy and inspiration?

Maren Oslac: 17:33

Well, the other reaction would be... so out of control, fear, whatever. The other reaction would be out of, like, giving up, I can't do anything right? Like, I'm overwhelmed, you know? So there's that reaction too.

Stephanie Allen: 17:49

I was listening to a CBC program one time, and they were, it was just like a call in kind of thing, of like, you know, can you tell us about a time that a teacher inspired you. And this man called in, and he said, when he was in grade seven, they the class was given an assignment that they had to give in in time. And everyone was in the classroom, and the teacher came in and said, Okay, I want your assignments. And all of a sudden the door opened, and the student walked in and was totally, like, a complete teenager, right? Like, yeah, whatever. So at, I don't care. I'm late, doesn't matter. And the teacher started literally taking a strip off this teenager that walked in late and then said, where's your assignment? And the teenager was like, I didn't get it done. I slept in and, you know, whatever. And then the teacher completely berated them, that student. Tore them down, called them names completely, was totally disrespectful. And then all of a sudden, the teacher stopped and looked at all of the students that were basically shocked, like literally with their mouths, like deer stuck in the headlights, eyes bulging out, going, Oh my gosh. And the teacher said to the other students, aren't you going to say something? This is your friend who walked in here late, and you're not even, and there's 30 of you and there's just one of me. Are you not going to say anything? Are you not gonna stand for them? Yeah, this is your friend. And what turned out was that this teacher and this student that showed up late and was kind of acting this way, they had already planned that to make a point of like, do you know what you stand for? Do you know what your values are and why that is? Like, we're so conditioned to give the answers instead of questioning why someone is doing what they're doing like instead of questioning that student, why are you late? What happened? What's going on in your life? Or questioning the teacher, why are you tearing down this student like this, what, you know, it's just a piece of paper, like, why are you being so hard on them?

Maren Oslac: 20:07

And we hand our authority over to authorities, and we say, oh, well, they must know. So then we sit there, right? And I think that's such a great example, because there's so much of that going on in in many cultures, countries, our both of our countries, right, with lots of different leaders who are, who are doing things that it's like, you know what, that's unacceptable, and yet we're accepting it. We're letting them.

Stephanie Allen: 20:36

We're letting them, instead of asking more questions, not out of a out of, you know, put you on an interrogation, like, you know what the teacher was doing with this student, but to ask out of a place of curiosity and wonder, like, I remember somebody having an immense reaction, like they had made up a story in their mind. I don't know what that story was, because I wasn't in their mind, but it's like, obviously they were having a reaction, because they were they were literally in a hot mess. And I said to them, what are you believing right now? Like I just I'm curious, what do you believe is your truth right now? Because, what are you fighting for? Because I think we're probably fighting for the same thing, but you have a belief that I'm not on your side with you right now, and you're making me into an enemy. How about we find a place, like I said, like Rumi says, you know, beyond right doing and wrong doing, there's a field I'll meet you there and saying, you know, let's, let's just slow everything down for a minute. And what are you believing? And how is that making you feel? Like, are you reacting? Are you in the I don't want to you can't make me fuck you energy or 'why bother, I can't do anything anyway'. Because if you're in those two, those two places emotionally, either fighting against something, or sticking your head in the sand and giving up, that you are in reaction and that you are in a place of fear, and we can't get to inspiration from there, we have to actually make space for inspiration.

Maren Oslac: 22:07

And I love what you said, because the space maker is the questing without the reaction. So just literally putting all the reaction aside and asking a question that doesn't have a charge on it, which can be really hard when we're right in the middle of it, right, so that it's not blaming or shaming somebody. It's just really like so it's interesting, because my husband and I have a, we've set aside morning time since he's got an evening business. I used to have an evening business. We've always had night time stuff, and so we

Stephanie Allen: 22:39

Well, and I'm hearing you too. It's like you have breakfast together. And I've been out of town for about a week and a half, and I came back, and we had breakfast this morning, and he's like, on his phone, texting. Every time I was turning around and I was talking to him, he was texting. And I found myself going into like, old stories, talking about have to check the internal state of yourself first, because if stories, right? Stories I was telling myself. He doesn't care about me...in my head. And I just thought, okay, I can go there, "what are you doing that damn phone? Blah blah" right, right. That's gonna end well, right? Not! So, instead I just I breathed into it, and I turned around. I was like, what's so important on your phone this morning? And just, I really wanted to know, because I was like because I care. It's not a you're in reaction internally those questions, even though just, you know, this is a Sunday morning that we're recording this. And so I was like, That's so strange. I wonder if there's a problem at a his range or whatever, and he's like, nothing. People are texting me, so I was responding. Now, this is 7am on a Sunday morning. I'm thinking, boy, oh boy. I could get pissed right now, or I could just ask another question. I was like, Well, is this something that we need to deal with during those questions, it's not about a right or wrong question, it's our time? Or could you deal with it later? And he went, oh, oh, you're right. I'm sorry. And it was so simple. And I was like, oh, that was nice, right? Because I quested instead of coming from the I'm right, you're wrong. You shouldn't be, I should be, what all of the the stories and the reaction of either anger or resignation, oh, he's always like this, I can't do anything about it. And, you know, like, those are the two what is fueled behind it that people hear. places we go to.

Maren Oslac: 24:52

That's true.

Stephanie Allen: 24:53

So to really take that moment to go, Wait a minute. I really care about this person, and I don't know what's going on, but I know that we've made an agreement to have time together in the mornings. We've made that agreement, and I can't, so I'm just going to ask him from a place of care and love well, and then...

Maren Oslac: 25:14

Yeah, to be completely transparent. I said, it's making me really angry, and I don't want to be angry right now, and I don't want to be angry with you, and so I just would like to understand so that I don't get angry. So I did tell him that there's, there is an emotion that is along, going alongside of this, right, so that it didn't, because I think you're right, because it would have bled through...

Stephanie Allen: 25:40

Yeah, that anger would have said, what the hell are you doing? Why are you texting somebody at 7am in the morning?

Maren Oslac: 25:45

And, yeah, right, like, in my mind, I wouldn't have said that. And in his mind, that's what he would have heard...

Stephanie Allen: 25:51

...because it's, it's got the anger behind it. And people don't always hear what we say. They hear the...

Maren Oslac: 25:56

...emotion, right. The energy in motion, exactly. And I think about that because, you know, one of the things that went through my head this morning was let them. Oh, just let him. Let him do his... and I was like, No, this is our time. This matters to me, right?

Stephanie Allen: 26:13

And I'm going to come back to what Mel Robbin said. Because, you know, one of the things that really touched me is that when she was doing the podcast and she's talking about, let them. She was really all wrapped around the axle about her son going to prom, and he didn't make the necessary arrangements for his date to go out and have dinner. And she was upset because you're like, are you kidding me? It's raining. And then she her daughter was saying, Mom, just let him. It's his prom. It's not yours. And I would, I think that's, that's very wise. It's right. It's, it's not, it's really none of her business. What's her business is like, oh my god, I'm the mother. What are people going to think of me and I didn't like those are the things that we have to go in and look inside. I call it the itty bitty, shitty committee, right? We have to go inside and clear out that junk, because that's making us try to control and manipulate other people. Instead of going,well, wait a minute, what am I believing right now? And is this any of my business really? Is there anything I... what can I control myself? And that doesn't mean don't say anything. That doesn't mean you know, just you know, you know, go along to get along. That doesn't mean that at all. It's just like, what am I fueled by right now? And I can change that. And by asking a question, by staying unknown, like I'm just going to surrender this, like you did, like I'm just going to surrender this. And sometimes we do need to say, God, I can really feel this anger or this fear or this sadness, and I'm really aware of that, but that takes self awareness. I think that's what we're talking about here, Maren, is that we tend to still even be reacting. We're trying to look for the the 10 step program on how to fix my relationship, or how to make a million dollars, but I'm so tired of those things. And I'm saying this because there isn't a 10 step. It might have worked for you in that moment, in that time. And you brought up something earlier about that very thing, that I had an experience with it, like the first time I learned how to surf. I had no freaking clue what I was doing, and I went out and I caught a set wave and went it all the way into the thing. And I'm like, well, this isn't that hard! What is people's problem! I couldn't do it again for like, 10 times that I went out on 10 different times, 10 different days. I hear that with people with meditation, we just say, Oh, I can't meditate. And it's like, sometimes people have that instant relaxation, and they're like, then they can't get it again. It's not because you're doing something wrong, and there isn't a 10 step program on how to do it right. It's a practice, and we're always changing and we're always growing. But it's like, what is your practice? What? What are you practicing? Are you practicing reacting, or are you practicing responding? Are you practicing looking outward to try to fix and change things? Are you practicing looking inward with love and kindness to go, huh, I'm noticing something right now?

Maren Oslac: 29:12

I think, so for our listeners. Before we started

Stephanie Allen: 29:12

in this moment in this moment, this time recording, Stephanie and I were talking about how this, let them, is fantastic, and we love that Mel Robbins did the podcast, and that it's so popular, and that there needs to be a practice behind it, which is where this practice came from, because you can get the like, that moment of like, Oh, I got this. Oh, that was easy. And then you try to repeat whatever it was that you got or that was easy, like Stephanie mentioned with, you know, her surfing and the wave, or people with meditation, you'll get that moment. And I, whenever I get those moments, I did that with archery. So my husband is an archery instructor, and I did that, like, the first time I picked up a bow, it was just so easy for me. I was like, oh this is easy. And then I couldn't hit the bullseye to save my life, right? So I realized, oh, there's a lot of practice that goes into being able to do that. And so we may have some lucky moments where we're like, oh, that was exactly what I needed to do. I needed to let them in this moment. And then there may be some moments where you go, Oh, crap, that really didn't work for me, right? And you don't notice it in that moment. So having some sort of a practice of, how do I A.) get to the place where I know whether I should or shouldn't, what's best for me, I'm, I don't even love the should and shouldn't. Like what's mine to do? Is it mine to say something,

Maren Oslac: 30:52

And nobody else can tell you that

Stephanie Allen: 30:54

That's right.

Maren Oslac: 30:55

And that's what you're saying with like, there's no 10 steps that's going to tell you what you what's best for you

Stephanie Allen: 30:59

Well in the then it opens to conversation. to do your practice of going inside. And that's, you know, the reason I told the story about my husband this morning was so that you could see that I'm still in my own practice with this. I checked in. I did my internal breathing. I checked.. is this something I just need to let him do... No, I need to say something, and how do I want to go about saying it? And I was in the quest, and I was in the I don't know how this is going to go.

Maren Oslac: 31:29

They do.

Stephanie Allen: 31:29

It takes a practice, and it isn't a one and And both people grow because of it. When we do that, when we done. Ever.

Maren Oslac: 31:40

And the really, really cool thing is that if I'm doing my work and I'm doing my inner like, doing what we were just talking about, have my practice. People meet me where I am most of the time, not always, not always. There are definitely people where it's like, okay, we're only going to be able to talk at your level, aren't we, right? Or at that like reaction, stay in the not knowing, in the surrender, in the curiosity and I should say, like they just want to be a reactive. Most of the time, people stop being reactive because I'm not being reactive because I'm coming from inspiration instead of reaction. And that is a really cool place to be.

Stephanie Allen: 32:40

And I think that what a great question. What's your inspiration? Yeah, what inspires you?

Maren Oslac: 32:47

And I love what you said about that of when you're in a place with somebody and you feel like you're on opposite sides, find the inspiration, the uplift, where the two of you could meet and start from there, because that's such... talk about practices. That's an amazing practice. wonder and reaching to that place of where do we both want

Stephanie Allen: 33:11

Yeah,

Maren Oslac: 33:14

so we would love to hear from you all this week. Have you listened to Mel Robbins podcast? What are your thoughts on her podcast? What are your thoughts on our thoughts of her podcast, and what's your inspiration? Because really, that's what it comes down to. We're completely aligned with what she's doing, because we believe in her inspiration, and we're also inspired.

Stephanie Allen: 33:38

And where would you like support and help to

Maren Oslac: 33:38

I love that. Yeah, we would love to know that that become that inspiration. would be that would be great. So remember, you can get on our email list, and every other week we have a podcast. In those to meet? Then magical things happen. between weeks we also have a blog post. So be sure to subscribe to our email. You can find us at www.thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com. you can also find us at www.tslp.life which is The Soulful Leader Project. So we'll look forward to seeing you all next week on the soulful leader podcast or on our blog post at the soulful leader project,

Stephanie Allen: 34:31

and that wraps up another episode of The Soulful Leader Podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen

Maren Oslac: 34:37

and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website, at www.thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com.

Stephanie Allen: 34:48

Until next time...