When Your Persona Becomes a Prison

What if you could feel more like yourself, have the energy and motivation you imagine AND create meaningful change in the world. It’s not a pipe dream.

If you have ever felt 

• like you’re missing something 
• Like there’s an answer just beyond your grasp
• smaller than you know yourself to be
• as if you just weren’t living up to your full potential
• not as happy as you should be

Today’s podcast has answers -and tools- for you!

This week, Maren and Stephanie pull apart the very means to freeing our essence, our energy and our potential - the shadow parts of ourselves. The parts we tuck away are the parts that hold both our gifts and our energy.

“If we cannot look inside to the ‘dark’ places, we will run from them and our life will become very small and restricted.” - Stephanie

The shadow is anything that we neglect or deny in ourselves. We learned early to squash down and turn away from aspects that were shamed, feared or even misunderstood. We created acceptable personas as masks - and we use them in every aspect of our lives. 

The problem is that 1. We get so used to the persona we forget that it's actually not us 2. Our essence, our energy and our life force are all tucked in the shadow and 3. Not being ourselves takes a toll, a toll that gets heavier and more painful with each passing year.

The good news is, it’s all changeable. And this podcast is the perfect place to start.

Be sure to listen to the end where you’ll find 

• great questions to help you uncover (and embrace) more of your essence
• inspiration from the 13th century poet Rumi 
• a process for identifying your shadow parts so you can reclaim your gifts and energy 

Chapters

• 2:04 your glass ceiling
• 5:39 adaptations for the unacceptable within
• 7:05 disassociation and how to recognize the shadow
• 10:51 compassion, ah there you are
• 12:36 making space and embracing the parts
• 16:05 agreements and shadow agreements
• 20:48 who would I be if I weren’t…
• 22:00 this is for more than ourselves
• 23:56 a process of self discovery and self healing- build your root system
• 27:03 Rumi’s The Guest House

TRANSCRIPT

YouTube Video

23:19 Mel Robbins’ "Let Them" - Two Opposing Views

The Guest House

Rumi

This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.

A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.

Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.

The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.

Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.

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Transcript

Stephanie Allen: 0:04

In a world where we have everything and it's still not enough, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Maren Oslac: 0:10

Deep inside you know, there's more to life. You're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper, more meaningful life that's calling you.

Stephanie Allen: 0:19

That's what we invite you to explore with us. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen and

Maren Oslac: 0:25

Maren Oslac, and this is The Soulful Leader Podcast.

Stephanie Allen: 0:30

Yay!

Maren Oslac: 1:10

So I have two questions for you, and we'll address them one at a time. So the I'll tell you first both questions. The first question is, when you're talking about shadow, I want you to explain that to us and define it first, and then the second question is, since we are The Soulful Leader, what does that have to do with leadership?

Stephanie Allen: 1:45

Well you know, it's interesting. Let's start with the second one. First, because if we cannot lead ourselves with love and kindness and look inside to the dark places, we will run from the outer all the time, and our life will become very small and restricted.

Maren Oslac: 2:04

You know, I am glad that you said that, because I think that a lot of us, including myself, experienced that. You know, the glass ceiling became very popular, you know, 10 or 20, years ago, and we started to talk about that of like, what does that mean, where we keep ourselves small based on our fears and our beliefs and all of the things that that, like, we started to become aware of as a culture, and I love that you bring that up of if we don't have that, those tools around shadow, which you're going to share with us in a moment, what that is, what you mean by that, to have that in our leadership, we will remain small. And I think there are so many of us that are experiencing that and wondering, how do I break free from these bonds of like that I keep, it's like, my own shackles. You know, it's like, it's a beautiful prison. I have a great house. I have a great this, and I and I still feel like I'm living small, I'm not...

Stephanie Allen: 3:16

...or that you're stuck.

Maren Oslac: 3:17

I feel stuck. Not living up to my potential, of like, why I'm here, what you're like, the big version of me.

Stephanie Allen: 3:24

Or why am I not as happy as I should be?

Maren Oslac: 3:27

Yeah...

Stephanie Allen: 3:28

And I think this is a really key thing of and this is, this is the beauty of the shadow, in some ways. I'm going to give you an example, because I'm going to get back to the number, the first question that you asked me too, but the other day, I went out for breakfast with a couple of my girlfriends, and I was traveling across... I live in in one province, and I have to cross the border over into the next province, and there's a lot of protests that have been going on right now. A lot of hate, lot of like projecting out of, like, hating the other. And I, I was coming across the border, and there was all kinds of protesters, and my heart just broke. I started to cry. And I'm like, what is mine to do? Like, I just like, really, really, like, do we have to hate so much, isn't there another way? And I was just so upset, and it was so great because I had an opportunity to talk to my to my girlfriends about it. Because I was like, man, I'm exhausted. I'm tired, I'm hurt, I'm scared of all these things that are going on. And one of my girlfriends said, she goes, God, you know, Stephanie, this is not like you at all. You're always so positive. I'm like, Yeah, you know when I hate that too, but I have to be so damn positive all the time. Like, sometimes I'm not positive, sometimes I'm a crankypuss too. He started to laugh and I said, you know, it. Like it doesn't give me space to be sad or grumpy or hateful or afraid, because I always have to wear this persona of, oh yeah, you know, I'm going to see the higher version of it, I'm going to be positive, I'm going to be curious, and I'm going to be wondering. But sometimes I just don't feel that way, like, sometimes I'm a freaking cranky person. I just want to be that way. Well, not really. I don't really want to be that way, but I realized that this was the shadow and those protesters, because I was really reflecting about it, because the protesters, I was like, wow, there's so much hate. Why? What is that about it? And what I know about the shadow, so here's coming back to that first question. I was like, what is the shadow? The shadow is anything that we have neglected or denied in ourselves. We kind of squash it down. We don't want to look at it because we tell ourselves it's unacceptable behaviour.

Maren Oslac: 5:51

So it's kind of like we stick it in the closet.

Stephanie Allen: 5:54

We stick it in the closet. Now that's just not unacceptable behavior in the way of negative behavior. It can also be your gifts and strengths, right? Because there's a lot of those things too, like having your gifts and strengths actually can make another person feel less than so you might stick that in the shadows too. So it's not just about right, wrong, good, bad shadows. A shadow is anything that you want to hide and don't want to show another for whatever reason. It's like the adaptations.

Maren Oslac: 6:22

So if I learn something really easily and somebody else doesn't, and I like, oh, okay, I need to pull back from that, because I'll make that person feel bad. And so I start shoving that part of myself, or, you know, if I am, you know, too loud, and somebody, you know, I'm told all the time to sit down and shut up, or if I, you know, like, whatever those things are that I, like you said, I love that word, the adaptations.

Stephanie Allen: 6:49

So you adapt your personality so that you don't make another...

Maren Oslac: 6:54

to become acceptable...

Stephanie Allen: 6:55

...exactly! And so what will happen is that when we do that over time, eventually you just go, I can't do this anymore, and we either blow up or implode.

Maren Oslac: 7:05

Because when we shove those sides of ourselves, they don't go away. They take up real estate in the dark parts. You know it's like in the unknown. It's like we pretend like they're not there. And this is why it's called Shadow, is because we don't see it. I had a teacher at one point who had a great example of this, of when we stand facing the sun, you know, it's a bright, sunny day and we stand facing the sun, it's all bright and glorious, this is what you're talking about. Of like, oh, I see, the higher this and blah, blah, blah, right? And when we look behind us, there's a dark shadow.

Stephanie Allen: 7:48

Always.

Maren Oslac: 7:49

Right? And the brighter the sunlight, the darker the shadow is behind us. When, if you think about like, when it's a really gray day and it's very overcast, and everything is diffused. There isn't such bright light, there also isn't such dark shadow.

Stephanie Allen: 8:09

Yeah, so like looking at our shadow is is so important because it you know, Carl Jung said, If you don't go in and work with your shadow, you will marry it, or you will work with it, meaning you know you're going to have an employer or an employee or someone in your your life that is going to actually play out that shadow for you, or they're going to be a politician, or they're going to be like, seriously, that's what we do, is we project it out onto someone else so that we can actually see ourselves. So I love little children, because I think children are so close to the source they remember who they are. They, you know, when we're little children, like before, the adaptations start to happen. You know, really anchor in there's that little, that little saying that the children says, you know, I know you are, but what am I?

Maren Oslac: 9:01

So if I'm a little kid and I'm like, Look at you! You four eyes!

Stephanie Allen: 9:05

Exactly! And you're like, well, I know I am. I know you are, but what am I? And it's like, it's so wise, because a child will say, but that's not who I am. That's how you might see me, because you are seeing me through your lens, and you're projecting yourself onto me. So when someone says, I hate so and so, yeah, they're actually disliking the very part in themselves that is in the shadow, right? So they're revealing... so anyone that gossips, complains, hates any of that stuff, they're actually revealing to you what is hidden within them.

Maren Oslac: 9:45

Yeah, because, we disassociate.

Stephanie Allen: 9:49

That's right.

Maren Oslac: 9:49

It's like it's such a painful part of ourselves, whether it's the golden, what we call the golden shadow, which is what we talked about, it's like some really beneficial part of ourselves that we've hidden away. You know, and we see somebody else and we think... Oh, my God, that person's amazing. I wish I could be like that. Well, guess what? It's same type of thing. I've disassociated myself.

Stephanie Allen: 10:09

Exactly and that's in you, and you've disowned it, And so to be able to go in and actually work with those parts and, you know, in these times, I mean, there's so much going on, like, what is our work to do? There's coming back to the leadership role again, so I'm kind of bouncing back between the question one and question two, but it's like, as a leader, if we don't know how to work with ourselves, we will not be able to work with others. So how do we work with our shadow part within ourself, with love and kindness, so that it's not literally one, taking us down, but also not getting projected out onto others that we can claim back that energy.

Maren Oslac: 10:51

I think the first thing to talk about with all of this now that we have kind of an idea of what it is and how it addresses, you know what it means for leadership, is compassion, because when, when we address the shadow, or when we look at it in ourselves, because, you know, one of the things you were talking about is when you see somebody and they're very angry, or they're this, or they're that, It's like, I want to be like when I see myself and I'm very angry, judgmental, etc,etc, because all of that is in me, like all of us have the shadow. And every time I point it out in somebody else, I I'm also pointing it out in me, and that's exactly...

Stephanie Allen: 11:39

...you're revealing your underwear basically.

Maren Oslac: 11:41

Exactly. Look at my look at my print underwear!

Stephanie Allen: 11:44

Exactly, you know. Okay, you just revealed what you're what, what's being hidden within you, right? You just flashed it.

Maren Oslac: 11:52

And we can be so cruel, as cruel as we are in the outer world to other people, I think we're more cruel to ourselves...

Stephanie Allen: 12:04

Most definitely!

Maren Oslac: 12:05

And so most definitely, that's where I think that very first thing before you start even looking at this, is to make an agreement with yourself to do it with compassion.

Stephanie Allen: 12:19

Yeah, like an observer, like observing it, because, you know, as children, we had to create adaptations in order to survive, in order to live and thrive. And I don't just mean physically, but I mean mentally, emotionally and even spiritually, we had to create a persona in order, like a mask, in order to hide those parts. But the thing is, is that we get so used to it, and we practice it over and over and over again that we forget that it's actually not us. It becomes so familiar. So it's like, who would I be without my hate? Who would I be without my positivity? Who would I be without... it's like, those are the questions that I had to ask. Like I said, you know, the other day going across, I'd ask myself, I'm like, wow, I have created such an adaptation to be a people pleaser and to be positive and to find the higher story. I've trained myself that, you know, I'm not hunting down the hate that's in me. And so, because there is, there's all of those things in there, and it's like, the part of me that that hates getting older, the part of me that hates not, you know, being as fit as I used to be, that part like, I mean, there's all kinds of ways that I can be hateful to myself, and then I can hate those. Then I can hate those hateful parts. Like that doesn't help, instead of going in and embracing it and going...Oh, wow, you're really, really struggling, Stephanie like myself, right?

Maren Oslac: 13:48

There is a part that's really, really angry.

Stephanie Allen: 13:51

Really, really angry, and what can I do to embrace that part? Finally, not let it, yeah, not let it spill over and spill out, but to also, and not to squash it. I don't want to keep putting it back in the closet and back in its back drawers. I need to also allow it to come out, and that's what I was doing with my girlfriends, you know, the other day at breakfast, of saying, you know, this really broke my heart, and I need some help, because I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling scared. And you know, they were good enough friends that they could hold that space for me to say, wow, we're not used to seeing it this way Stephanie like and it, it ended up unfolding into a whole conversation about shadows and how we had adapted ourselves, into the way and like, what if we could then air those out in a safe place and find a new way of being with them? That was like, Okay, I know that I do this, and I want to find a new way, right? And, and, yeah, like, when you start to air it out, then you go, Oh God, it doesn't have me, like, hostage anymore. There's like, it's like a little bit of energy releases, and that sometimes that's where the emotion comes out. So I say to feel it is to heal it, to let yourself feel it. Because as soon as you feel it, you actually are letting it out. And I realize that these haters was were actually helping me remember where I hate inside myself so much, and that what's really being called us forth, within, within me, is to love more. What would that be like? What would love do inside of me, not outside? That'll come. I think we're so focused on doing it in the outer that's the adaptations, instead of practicing the inner leadership that we are talking about. Because, like, how do I lead that part? And I say a part, because I think it's not about all or nothing. It's like there are parts of me. There might be a little child part of myself, there might be a teenager part of myself, there might be a young adult part of myself. There might be a male part or a female part of myself. Like, there's, there's a whole bunch ofcharacters that are going on in there. There's a whole play that's acting out, you know?

Maren Oslac: 16:05

Yeah, and the more you can step back and be observant, it's so powerful. One of the things as you were talking about, I realized, is that the agreements that we make... so you had an agreement amongst those particular friends, of I'll hold the positivity and each of them had an agreement of, like, here's how I'm going to show up in this group of friends. And I think we can all, like, kind of recognize we're different people with different people. So when I come to say, for example,do the podcast, a certain Maren that shows up, a certain Maren...

Stephanie Allen: 16:47

Podcast Maren... Podcast Maren shows up!

Maren Oslac: 16:51

And you know, when I was a dance performer, the performer Maren would show up. And in my relationship with my husband, you know, there's lots of different parts of me that show up, and we have certain agreements of I will be a certain person, right? I tend to hold the anger in our relationship. And so there are different places where different pieces of me show up, and when I say...

Stephanie Allen: 17:17

That's interesting that you just said I had, I tend to hold the anger in our relationship. Tell me more about that, because I think that's fascinating. Like, what do you mean? You hold the anger in your relationship?

Maren Oslac: 17:28

Well, I am the volatile one out of me and my husband, he is always even keel, doesn't say much, holds it all in and so, because he doesn't... I don't know that this is actually true. And my experience is, because he doesn't do that, I tend to go to the opposite extreme, and I'm more volatile. I'm the one who will have outbreaks. I'm the one who has to talk about, I'm the one, right? So, like, it brings up my anger. So it's like we have an agreement, a shadow agreement, that he'll do certain things. He's got his own shadow stuff. That's not like I could judge that. I got my own shit to look at, right? So what I look at is when that anger comes up of... okay, where are the parts of me that are angry, that need to be accepted and listened to and heard, because those are the places where I don't feel that necessarily in my relationship. And I will say that it's not because of him, it's because of my projection onto him and our agreement between each other of like, this is how we'll show up with each other.

Stephanie Allen: 18:45

So when one of you changes that agreement, it creates that whole system into chaos. It's like finding a whole new dance, a whole new way of being

Maren Oslac: 18:55

It can and that's what I love, like a while ago in the podcast, you had said you brought this to your friends, and they're like, we're not used to you, like that. What does that mean?

Stephanie Allen: 19:05

Yeah, I changed the whole agreement.

Maren Oslac: 19:07

You changed the whole agreement because you're like, I'm not showing up as positive Stephanie today.

Stephanie Allen: 19:11

That was hard for me because, I was like, oh, you know, here's all the itty bitty, shitty committee that goes on inside of myself. Oh, if I'm not positive, I'm going to be rejected. I'm going to be abandoned, you know, I'm going to be judged, I'm being the, you know, the Negative Nelly here right now. And I'm not like that. And that's not who I want to be. Oh, my God, I went on and on and on, but I had to, like, really hold love within part of myself. It's like, and there's a part of me that really is hurting right now, and it's okay to ask or help, and it's okay to show that, because it's a part of me. It's not all of me, right? And it's tired of trying to be positive all the time and trying to squash down. On the part that is afraid, that is hurting, and what would happen if I let it out, and let it out consciously, rather than reactively. That's why I say we either implode or we explode that like, those are not healthy ways. I know it either comes out in physical pain in our body if we don't address a shadow. It's like, often those are needs and wants and things that we've squashed down in there, or it comes out and we attack another person, or we run away, we avoid them, we cut them out of our lives. It's the burn, cut poison method again, you know? And I'm like, what if there's another way? Because I truly believe, as leadership, there are other ways that we can transcend and include those parts.

Maren Oslac: 20:48

And when I look at it in my relationship of, you know, who would I be if I weren't angry? Just like, oh, that's a different way of looking at it, right?

Stephanie Allen: 21:00

That is such a great question. Who would you be? Right?

Maren Oslac: 21:04

Just like you ask yourself, Who would I be if I wasn't positive? You know, like being positive, it's not that you're not going to be positive. It just is recognizing that that particular positivity is an adaptation and not an...

Stephanie Allen: 21:19

...attachment. It's an attachment. And the minute you're attached to anything, I don't even care how good it is, the minute you're attached to anything, you're going to suffer. Instead of allowing, like a stream, a river, flowing through you, to let it move through... that's again, emotion, energy, emotion, let it flow through you. What if you can let it move through you and not be attached to it. It would clean you out and lift you up actually, rather than try to, like, squash you underneath. And you have to hold your breath and try to hope to God that you're going to survive. Because that's where most of us are in survival mode, like barely with our noses above the water, like trying to breathe.

Maren Oslac: 22:00

Yeah, you know, it's like we're seeing that so much in our society right now. And so the thing that we're pointing to for us, and for everybody else out there is, the more we can do it for ourselves, the more it impacts society. And the reason there is a very logical reason for it is that when we don't allow those things to flow through us, then the energy that we have, that's our energy, my energy gets projected out because I haven't owned... when I own my shadow, I get the energy from my shadow. I get all that energy that I've stuffed into the basement and stuffed away and said, it's not mine, it's not who I am. Blah, blah, blah, blah, right instead. Now, when I start to own those pieces back and say, what, who would I be if I weren't angry, and I actually looked at that part of me that I stuffed... I get that energy back. When I don't look at that, I hand that energy over to the collective and so now we're seeing all of this anger at a large scale. I want to take that back. I want to stop giving energy to that.

Stephanie Allen: 23:19

So it's interesting, because a little while ago we talked about The Let Them Theory, let them, let me, kind of aspect, and we're talking what you and I are talking about right now is almost like the next level up. It's like, these are the things I cannot control. I cannot control that there are protesters, or there's negative things, or my husband isn't behaving the way I want him to, or whatever we have it, but what we can control is our reaction to it, and not by stuffing it. I think that's the old ways that we stuff it, or we just go, well, it doesn't really matter, like we just throw it out.

Maren Oslac: 23:53

or shame it or shouldn't feel that way, right?

Stephanie Allen: 23:56

Instead of saying, okay, wait a minute,

Maren Oslac: 23:58

I love that analogy because it, you know, I mean, we what if I use this as a practice of the self discovery and self awareness, like someone doesn't invite me to a party and they're all whole bunch of my friends, and I'm like, at first, I'm hurt. What if I actually let myself feel it, not react with it, but just let myself feel it. And then I realized, wow, what is this really about? It's about belonging, feeling included. Okay, where am I not including myself inside myself? Where am I can all picture a tree if we cut off three quarters of the roots, rejecting a part of myself and not including all those parts to come forth within me? If that makes sense, like the itty bitty, shitty party that that's in there. It's like, where am I rejecting that? And can I embrace that and listen to them and give them space. See, I look at it as an internal relationship, not so much as the external, because it's the internal relationship that actually is the root system to the external relationships that if you can take it internal and you know, three quarters of the tree is going to die, you know, feed your roots, feed all of that thing, then your tree above ground is going to flourish and blossom and bear fruit.

Stephanie Allen: 25:03

Well, we're so physical focused, meaning the outer we're looking at the product, we're looking instead of the process the root system, that we're constantly focused on the outer as our value and our worth and who we are, instead of going, wait a minute, what is feeding this? Is there any root if it lives at all. And yet, that's what we're doing to system. What's going on beneath the surface. So what I mean by that, it's like, you know, the outer is really such a small percentage, like 20% there's the mental, the emotional, the spiritual, the ethical, all of those root system. What is the ourselves without even realizing it. We think that we're not, root system? And if you have a strong inner rootedness. And I mean, we can relate that in the way of community, of having a strong rootedness. If I didn't have my two girlfriends, I mean, I've built a relationship with them. I mean, one of them I've known all my life, so a long, long time. Theother one I've that we're full beings, and we're literally walking around known since high school, so more than half of my life. If I hadn't built a strong root system with them. I wouldn't have felt safe enough to show them that inner stuff, yeah, and they would not have built that relationship with me to stay present with it. But those are our roots, and you got to with about a 10th of our roots, which means we're only taking up nourish them. And I think that's the shadow. We don't see the root system. We don't see the shadow, we just see what's out there.

Maren Oslac: 27:03

And I know, you know, if you're listening, you may not... you might be thinking, gosh, I don't have that type of root system meaning out there in in the society. And that's okay, because there's a process of building it inside of yourself as well. I'm going to read a poem by the mystic Rumi that much energy and that much feeding ourselves, and that's called The Guest House, and Stephanie mentioned it earlier, of like letting the things move through you instead of getting attached to the... the I feel angry, I feel this, because we identify with it. I am angry. I am fill in the blank. He is arrogant. I am happy. You know, starting- one of the places to the only amount that we can... no wonder we wake up and we need start to build that root system is to stop identifying with those things, whether at any either extreme, the happy or the sad, the good or the bad, whatever the judgment is to let go of the judgment and literally just feel the things. So this is the poet Rumi. It's called The Guest House, and I will put it in the show notes. ~ This being human is a guest house. Every morning, a new arrival, a joy, a depression, a meanness, some caffeine and then we go to sleep when we need, you know, a drink momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor, welcome and entertain them all, even if there are crowd of sorrows who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture, still treat each guest honorably, he may be clearing you out for some new delight, the dark thought, the shame, the malice meet them at the door laughing and invite them in. Be grateful for whoever and like just... comes, because each has been sent as a guide from beyond. ~

Stephanie Allen: 28:59

What a practice. That that poem is so beautiful to me.

Maren Oslac: 29:02

Yeah, it is a practice. And when you look at it as not just words, as you look at it as a practice to keep coming back to come come again, that's another Rumi poem, come come again, that we're not going to do this perfectly. We're not expected to. We've had eons of being trained to be a certain way. And then it's the untraining. We're in the unlearning process of the up leveling process of, oh, that was just something I learned, not something, not someone that I am, yeah. So that is the way to start building the root system within yourself, that inner leadership, the soulful leadership. And if we can support you in any way, we're happy to.

Stephanie Allen: 29:56

This has been great.

Maren Oslac: 29:57

It has been.

Stephanie Allen: 29:59

Let those... let those petty tyrants out there, let them help you look inside with love.

Maren Oslac: 30:06

Yes, start it all with compassion and love. And like I said, if we can support you in like reminding you that it's all comes from compassion and love, just give us a give us a poke, whether it's a call or an email, you can find us on Facebook or on LinkedIn, at The SoulfulLeaders, also on YouTube. So we'll see you in a couple of weeks on The Soulful Leader Podcast. Thanks for joining us.

Stephanie Allen: 30:42

And that wraps up another episode of The Soulful Leader Podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen

Maren Oslac: 30:48

and Maren Oslac. Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website, at www.thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com

Stephanie Allen: 30:59

Until next time...