When Pushing Harder Makes Everything Worse (and how to change it)

Do you ever feel trapped between going all-in (the constant go, go, go, go), or needing to check out (the I've earned it, I've put in my time, I'm just I'm done.)

You are NOT alone.

The secret that no one tells us - there IS another option. 

Society teaches us to push, push, push — in business, in relationships, in life — which works for awhile. Then we crash and burn, and all too often, that frustration turns inward. Well, there’s good news, in today’s episode, Stephanie and Maren share an alternative path. They unpack one of the most overlooked leadership skills: the difference between presence and pressure.

• Why does our culture reward relentless doing while quietly starving the roots that sustain us?
• What does it actually look like to slow down without checking out?

Stephanie and Maren tackle these questions, and more, through real stories, honest reflection, and a few unexpected analogies (think: scuba diving, lawnmowers, and Will Smith). The "go-go-go then crash" cycle is real and this conversation will give you tools to not end up as just another statistic.

Tangible, actionable practices will help you shift out of the all-or-nothing loop, reconnect you to what you love and help you find actual fulfillment in your life.

If you've ever felt like you're running on empty yet can't seem to stop, this episode is for you.---

Resources & References Mentioned

17:14 - Collateral Beauty (2016) — starring Will Smith, Kate Winslet, Helen Mirren

  - https://amzn.to/4mODUja

22:10 - Rumi — "Meet it at the doorway" reference

21:06 & 27:00 - Saint Francis of Assisi — the practice of giving inward first, then to a stranger

Enjoyed This Episode?

If this resonated with you, the best thing you can do is **share it with someone who needs it** — and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps more soulful leaders find their way to this conversation.

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“You cannot give somebody what you think they need. You can only give yourself what you need.” — Stephanie Allen

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TRANSCRIPT

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Transcript

Welcome To Soulful Leadership

Stephanie 0:03

In a world where we have everything and it's still not enough, we're often left wondering, is this really it?

Maren 0:10

Deep inside, you know there's more to life. You're ready to leave behind the old push your way through and claim the deeper, more meaningful life that's calling you. That's what we invite you to explore with us. We're your hosts, Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac

Maren and Stephanie 0:26

and this is the Soulful Leader Podcast.

Stephanie 0:30

Yay! Have you ever wanted something so bad that you just pushed and pushed and pushed? You tried everything, you reached out, you got help and guidance, and nothing seemed to work. So then you internalized everything and you said there must be something wrong with me. I'm a complete mess up. And you pushed inwardly with yourself, telling yourself all kinds of stories. Well, today Maren and I are gonna unpack pressure

The Pressure You're Trained to Accept

Stephanie 1:05

and learning how to be present instead of being pressured or pressing. And I, you know, one of the key things I feel that is missing in our life today is space for kindness and compassion. Don't you find that like, you know, don't you find that, Maren? Like sometimes it's like we should do more or be more, or we're all we're too much.

Maren 1:30

Well, I don't think that there is space for kindness or compassion, especially in the business world. Like that's those are not things that are measurable, and they're not things that you can put towards your bottom line, and they're not things that you know... there's a ton of proof that both kindness and compassion are good for the bottom line, and they do... like they change everything for the better, and yet because they're not measurable, they get left off, they're not part of the balance sheet.

Stephanie 2:10

You know, isn't that... isn't that the shit though? Like, why can't we measure it? Like, why and why are we even so fixated around measuring something? I know the old saying is like, you know, we measure what's of meaning to us, right? You know, but that's really

Measuring Fruit Versus Feeding Roots

Stephanie 2:25

the results that we're measuring. We're not measuring the process, you know, meaning that internal thing, that thing that nobody sees, how we are when no one's looking. Like that really matters. And if we think of like, I always think of the image of a tree, like we measure like how much fruit the tree produces versus looking at how are we feeding the roots? Right.

Stephanie 2:49

What where are the root systems? Are they being cut off? What's happening? And it's like we know this that if the roots don't don't get fed or have air or have what they need, the nourishment, they the tree doesn't blossom, it doesn't bear fruit.

Maren 3:04

So I love that analogy. I'm gonna use that a little bit further because our agriculture in the northern hemisphere, anyway, is really short-sighted in that we don't care about the health of the soil. We're starting to, right? There are more people that are starting to be aware of the health of the soil because that's what feeds the roots, etc. And the way that big business, big agribusiness has been is, basically, pump all kinds of stuff into the roots so that the plant gives us lots of produce. Don't worry about if it depletes the soil, if it hurts the plant, if it hurts us in the process, whatever, because everything is about the end. So basically, you know, we've heard the you know, win at all costs, or the the end justifies the means. Both of those exclude what you said at the beginning of kindness and compassion. Because if you're looking at a plant from the perspective of kindness, kindness would be feeding the entire life cycle of the plant and making sure that the soil around it is healthy so that it has a wonderful life and then it produces well for us. We don't think like that.

Stephanie 4:39

Yeah, no, we don't create the environment, not just the external environment, but the internal environment.

Maren 4:45

Right.

Stephanie 4:46

I think about what that means to me is I think about how we talk to ourselves or how we think about ourselves, that's the internal environment,

The High Cost of High Production

Stephanie 4:55

and nobody can see it, and yet it is making a very huge impact on our physiology and on our actions. So that those actions in physiology is what's going to bear the fruit or not.

Maren 5:09

Right. Because what we see in the outer world is going to end up being a reflection of the inner. And if I go back to the plant analogy again, where the plant will give a lot of fruit short term and then get very ill and not live very well. And that's what we do to ourselves, right? We're high producers. We go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go.

Stephanie 5:37

Oh, God. And then we crash.

Maren 5:38

And then we crash, we get really sick, right? And we can't produce anymore. And then we beat ourselves up when we're sick and we think we failed. We think we're not enough, we didn't do enough. I should have done something differently. And you know, like the, you know, you always like to call it the itty bitty shitty committee.

Stephanie 5:59

Well, and I think of like that term retirement, you know, where you go, go, go, go, so that you can reach the end result of a happy, healthy, wonderful life in retirement, but you haven't nourished your internal root system along the way. You're like prolonging that nourishment until you get to that certain age or that certain level of financial, only to then crash and go, now what? Who am I? I don't know what to do in this so-called retirement time.

Maren 6:32

And I think for a lot of people, whether it's retirement or they've hit a ceiling in their work life, or they've hit a transition, or there's lots of different places that we hit this place, this moment, in our lives where we do, we look at it and we go, Who am I? Well, how did I get here and why? From this place of like not being happy with it, like I did something wrong, like I didn't do the right classes, or I missed out on something, or I you know that internal gosh, what the heck now?

Stephanie 7:21

Well, I think that's a great question. What the heck now? So what what the heck? Like how how can we reprocess this? How can we recognize it that we're on that kind of that road towards that? How do how can we slow down and change

The Trap Of Endless Goals

Stephanie 7:40

direction without waiting for a crash and burn, you know?

Maren 7:44

I followed a man named Lanny Basham for many years, and he had a mental management system because he was an Olympic shooter and he won two Olympics in a row. He actually got second place at one and won the next one. And beautiful aside story is that he tied for first place, and they went to like the n'th degree to find who which of these two people actually won. And it was between him and this woman. And he ended up getting first place, and when he was on the podium, he pulled her up onto the first place podium so they stood there together, which I just thought was beautiful. I love that story. Anyway, so back to Lanny, he having achieved this amazing thing twice in the Olympics and on the podium both times, and he said that he was really, really, really, really lost when he achieved everything. And he didn't know what his purpose was, like why, and he struggled, he struggled greatly, and so in his mental management system, which he had created to help people to achieve, one of the things that he said is make sure that you have a goal beyond your goal.

Stephanie 9:16

That almost makes me feel exhausted for a minute, just when I think of that. I'm like, oh my god, will the goals ever end? Can I ever rest? Like, okay, carry on with your story.

Maren 9:27

Well, so here's the thing is that younger Maren loved that. And it meant something to her, and she like kept going at it, right? And this is what we were just talking about is keep going, keep going, like do another thing, da-da-da. Always have another goal in mind. And it there does get to be a point where you go, Oh my god, will the goals never end?

Stephanie 9:56

Well, and I think what happens is that when that's when people get burnt out, they go, Oh my God, will the goal goals ever end? And they just go frig-it you know, like I'm done. I'm life is good enough, it's great, I'm good. I just need to be happy with where I'm at. And that's not what we're

Presence = Not Checking Out

Stephanie 10:10

saying either. That's not presence either. That's kind of resignation of like, you know, I've earned it, I've done my 40 years of work, I'm just I'm done.

Maren 10:20

What's interesting...

Stephanie 10:23

That is not presence...yeah...

Maren 10:23

No... what's interesting with that is this either or of like- I'm either going all in, go, go, go, go, or I've checked out, right? So for a lot of those, for most of those people that I've met anyway, they really have checked out. They're like, you know what, doesn't matter, not my problem. And they're either constantly scrolling or they're, there, there's an addiction somewhere in their lives, whether it's to, you know, doing nothing or scrolling, or maybe even drugs or alcohol or whatever, right? So there is this moment of like, okay, do I keep going or do I check out? As if it's an either-or. And I think what we're pointing to is that it's not an either-or, and it does require this presence. And I... earlier you and I were talking about presence versus pressure.

Stephanie 11:20

Yeah, like you know, we're trying to fix somebody, we're pressuring them, and we're trying to point a solution for their issue, or fix ourselves, or fix ourselves because we're not comfortable, we don't feel safe in emotionally, mentally, physically, maybe. You know, we don't where we're at, so we are uncomfortable, and so we want to like just get out of that uncomfortability as fast as we can. Instead, being "presence" is not, it's even harder than being still because it's not necessarily stillness because you're moving internally, it's like an internal awareness of like being very present to the pain or the uncomfortability without trying to fix it or shame it or be harmful to yourself, but to just witness it, what it might be offering to you. And this is a tough one because I think even in the outer world, when we talk about reaching goals or retiring or and we should have another goal, but that's exhausting us, there comes a time which also transcends the resignation. It comes a time where we go, okay, what wants to happen for me? What is the meaning of my life? And is there something that I am meant to be present to to give to or receive from? Like there's something that's that's being of asked of me, and that isn't always about giving something, it could also be

Life with Inner Connection

Stephanie 13:00

about receiving something too, but that requires presence. Sometimes that's stillness, but mostly it's presence.

Maren 13:10

So I love that you mentioned meaning. Because I think for me, when I was, I just I woke up the other day thinking about that Lanny Basham story and and how I was no longer in that cycle and what had changed. Because there is a much, there's a deep peace now for me. Where before there wasn't, before I was in, I was in that cycle of go do more, go do more, go do more. Oh my god, I can't do anymore. Go do more, go right, like and then oh my god, I can't do anymore. So in that either or, and what's really changed for me is the deep connection to- my life does have meaning. And I don't need to figure that out all at once and do it to be good enough.

Stephanie 14:14

Yeah, you're already enough.

Maren 14:17

My life has meaning, and everything that I've done thus far also has meaning, and it's led me to this point. And what you were just talking about is like, what is that asking of me? So there's this inquiry, and when you said the presence sometimes means stillness, I think that we assume that presence means stillness. And -right- for me, it's not always this inquiry of like, okay, what's the meaning? What's the deeper meaning? Where is it calling me to next? What is what is it asking of me? What did all of this lead up to? And now I get to be curious and I'm excited about it instead of coming from, and it's a subtle difference, right? So I'm still doing things, I'm still engaged in my life. The difference is it's not coming from a place of I'm not good enough, I need to do more. It's coming from a place of this is amazing. I am here for a reason, and this is exciting, and I've done all the all the right things to get me here. And what's next?

Stephanie 15:32

Yeah, what a different, what a different mindset, right? Like what a different presence. It's like I can show up in self-pity. Oh, poor me, I haven't done anything. Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Or I can show up angry, screw you, I know what I'm doing. Or I can show up literally in presence and just be curious and in wonder and go, hmm, wonder what wants to happen.

Stephanie 15:56

Yeah. This is interesting because when we let go of those two extremes, the self-pity or the I'm self-righteous, you know, we have space to then choose.

Collateral Beauty

Stephanie 16:10

We're in that less than driven place, but more from an awareness place of just watching it. And that is not doing nothing, by the way. Like sometimes you're saying, I'm just not gonna do it. I'm just gonna, you know, I remember a really good friend of mine is a General in, in the military, retired now. And he had gone to Rwanda and had seen some pretty horrific things. Lost his whole platoon. And I remember seeing him at the cottage one time, and we were just having a bonfire together, and he goes, Steph, I love what you're doing in your life, like it just sounds amazing. I said, well, what is it that you would like to do? He goes, I just want to ride a lawnmower around and around and around. He was so traumatized and so burnt out. Yeah, and I'm not saying that's right or wrong or good or bad, because sometimes we just do need to get a lawnmower, right, and but not vacate. Like there's a great movie that Maren and I have watched at one time, Collateral Beauty with Will Smith. Powerful movie, very powerful movie, and Will Smith is not your typical comedian like he normally is, or funny guy, you know. He's actually gone through some really hard stuff. He's lost his little girl to a rare disease, and he is... it looks as if he's so traumatized that he can't function in the world. But if you actually watch the movie, you'll see he's very present in what he's doing. He starts doing dominoes, but he's very present with his focus and his energy in order to be aware with what's going on within him. He's having a hard time feeling the feelings, but he's very present

Maren 18:07

and intentional,

Stephanie 18:08

and intentional, even though he's not present in the outer world.

Maren 18:12

Yeah,

Stephanie 18:12

and yet we judge that. So when someone's going through a really hard time, we don't know what's going on internally. And what hurts my heart sometimes is to watch my clients medicate it because they don't fit in that high rational achieving outer world anymore.

Maren 18:32

You're talking about... so judging ourselves at this point.

Stephanie 18:35

Judging ourselves...

Maren 18:36

I don't fit, so I'm just gonna medicate it.

Stephanie 18:39

I'm gonna medicate it and numb myself out. And there's a time and place, of course, for medication. But sometimes I think we easily default to that instead of looking at what would it be like if you were surrounded by people who were present to you, not pressuring you, but present to your process. And that's why I come back to that movie of Collateral Beauty, you know, Kate Winslit's in it. It's an amazing, you know, amazing... Helen Muir is in it. It's a great movie where you watch these individuals who are highly present to his to Will Smith's process and how it changes us. So can we be that with ourselves? Can we develop that? I think that's a practice, isn't it? Like that's the- we do need each other. We're not meant to go through things alone. It's why

The Power of Practicing Presence

Stephanie 19:35

we have support groups, it's why we need communities.

Maren 19:38

One of the places that we could start to practice that, because I think sometimes it's easier to practice it on somebody outside of ourselves than on ourselves. Like we tend to be harder on ourselves than those around us. So, one of the places that you can start practicing that is with someone in your life that you love and you would love to see them change or be different because you want the best for them. And while that's a great thing, that pressure that you're putting on them, it also is pressure that you're putting on you to do something, to show up, to like it's unkind to yourself and it's unkind to them. So you could start practicing this allowing by not trying to change them, by accepting them and trusting that they have it will unfold for them. How can I be present to this person to help them just by being present instead of doing something trying to fix them?

Stephanie 20:51

So I might even offer something is like, can you even practice with yourself?

Self Compassion At The Doorway

Maren 20:56

Well, that's what I'm wondering is like, so is it easier to try and practice it first with somebody else? Because we were talking about doing it with ourselves, yeah.

Stephanie 21:05

Right? Although you cannot, it's harder to give it to someone if you haven't got it inside. You can't give ten dollars to someone else if you don't have ten dollars. So Saint Francis has a great practice of like that. St. Francis, the Great, you know, mystic monk being who said, if you want something in the outer world, if you want, you know, want someone to love you, you want someone to be kind to you, you want success, whatever it is, give it to yourself inside first. That's that's the number one. Find the part inside where you are not being kind to yourself, where you're pushing yourself, where you're being present with yourself, and you take that part and you are present to it. Stay curious with it, get to know it, challenge it, test it. It's like, you know, like test it as an example. Like a prophet that says, Oh, it's too late. I'm I'm a screw up. It'll never happen for me. That's not kind. And I can hear that voice inside myself. And I and it's easy to try to fight it or ignore it or numb it. But instead, what if I met it at the doorway, as Rumi would say? We've talked about this. Meet it at the doorway, invite it in. So you invite that part and you say, tell me, tell me. Tell me, you know, what are you afraid of? Why are you why are you pushing so hard? Why are you being so unkind? What is it about? What do you believe? Ask yourself that part what it is. Now, this takes time to work with this. This is not easy. And why I say it's important is because as you start to practice it within yourself, I can guarantee you you're gonna have lots of people to practice with outside of you when this starts to happen. And if you've practiced it with loving kindness towards yourself, it's way easier to be present to someone else's hot mess if you've been present to your own.

Trounced by Scuba

Stephanie 23:05

I'll give you here's another example. So I have a really good friend of mine. Thank God we don't go through anxiety attacks at the same time because we would both be literally in a hot mess. So I have been recently taking scuba diving and I'm a hot mess. I can guarantee you I'm a hot mess. And if I did not have my friend who's been so generous to me to be present, and that's exactly what he does. He's just absolutely present to me. And I know he's there and I feel safe. But I've also practiced it with myself too. And I've also practiced it when we've been on the ski hill together, and he goes into a hot mess. And I can stay present. But there's this wonderful experience of like when you've been on either side and you go, oh, that's what it's like. Yeah, you cannot give somebody what you think they need. It's not your business. You can only give yourself what you need. So if someone outside of you is a hot mess or going through their stuff, it's really alluring to try to help them, and that's kind and that's wonderful. And sometimes the best thing

Being Helped by a Stranger

Stephanie 24:25

to do is literally be there with them. Don't try to change them, don't try to fix them, don't try to pressure them. Just be there with them. So after my hot messness of scuba diving, this is just last weekend, you know, we're driving home, a fluke snowstorm happens, a woman in the front of me, in front of us, driving on the highway, spins out, no one stops. We stop. I'm still frozen from my experience in the water from the hot messness. I don't know what to do. I watch my friend, he's like so elegant. Pulls over, knows where to pull over, calls 911, is calm. And I'm like, wow, I'm just present to his process. And it actually takes me out of my out of my my shock and trauma myself. And then I'm able to actually have the resourcefulness to go over and and help this young woman. And I'm not trying to fix her or anything. I just I don't know what to do. So what do I do? I ask her, what do you need? And she shakes, and it's like, it's okay. You can shake. I give her permission. I'm not gonna tell her that everything's gonna be, I don't know what if everything's gonna be all right. I don't know any of those things. Finally, she's just you know, she's shaking. And I said, do you... would you like a hug? And she said, Yes. I swear I must have hugged her 10 times or whatever. I don't know if I was hugging her for me or I was hugging her for her. But the the point of it is is that to be able to slow down enough to give someone space for their own process, you can't rush them. We can't rush ourselves. Can we be kind with ourselves with the part that is frozen in fear or the part that is like going off with emotion and and catastrophizing inside of ourselves? Can we can we not shut it down? Can we just be

Giving, Or Getting?

Stephanie 26:25

witness to it and stay curious with it with love? The more we practice it inside, the easier it is outside. I always shouldn't say easier, the more natural it will become to do it outside.

Maren 26:39

Yeah, there is there is there is a path actually. There there truly is a path for both directions. So whichever one is feeling like, oh, maybe it just feels too overwhelming to go inside. You can actually start with noticing it and being present with the people around you as well.

Stephanie 27:00

It will lead you inside. There's so all paths lead home. So absolutely good point, good point, Maren. And and to finish the the Saint Francis practice, yes, first you give it to yourself, then you give it to a total stranger. Why a total stranger? Because you are completely detached, you will never know the effects of what you've just given them. You will never know. So your ego gets out of it. So me giving this woman a hug, I didn't, you know, I have her name, but I couldn't even pronounce her name. So, you know, I didn't ask her for her address, nothing. She didn't ask me for mine. It's totally a gift of like it's gone. I will have no idea. So my ego does not get attached to it.

Maren 27:42

Right. There's no expectation. Well, aren't you gonna thank me? Aren't you gonna do this? Aren't you gonna do the blah blah blah blah blah?

Stephanie 27:48

Exactly. And so when I give it to myself, I plant the seed. When I give it to a stranger, I make space so that it can actually come in another way for me to receive it.

Maren 28:02

I love that.

Stephanie 28:04

Yeah, it's it's a good practice, it is, and it's powerful.

Maren 28:10

And when we're feeling lost or feeling like we didn't do all the right things and we don't know who we are, that presence

Share Your Story And Connect

Maren 28:20

instead of pressure is what will get us out of it, it's what will shift the process. So we would love to hear your stories about where you've felt stuck and what's going on inside of your world. So you can find us at The Soulful Leaders, both on Facebook, actually, all three Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube. And you can always visit our websites. One of them is tslp.life, stands for The Soulful Leader Project.life, https://tslp.life/ and our podcast, which is www.thesoulfulleaderpodcast.com. We'll see you all in a couple weeks on The Soulful Leader Podcast.

Stephanie 29:15

And that wraps up another episode of the Soulful Leader Podcast with your hosts, Stephanie Allen and Maren Oslac.

Maren 29:23

Thank you for listening. If you'd like to dive deeper, head over to our website at the Soulful Leader Podcast.com.

Stephanie 29:32

Until next time...